group buy on Stahl headers ??

[Nicad]

Those look great Tom. You chose the perfect colour too.

 

[David]

I can be talked into the group buy and wait to install it until some other stock car proves the benefit. If there is no benefit I will sell mine to somebody that has the 3.5L hot cam cars, and will not ask anybody to eat their hats in public. In private would be just fine.

I'm with Arde on this. I'm trying to read through both threads but ,while very helpful, the comments suggest that selecting the wrong size won't help and could even sacrifice low end power for top end.

But given the generous price break ( and the fact that these may soon no longer be available at all ), it feels like more of an investment that I shouldn't pass up. I'm going to post my technical questions over in the other thread so we can keep this thread about the logistics of the buy.

 

[Arde]

David, you were the guinea pig I had in mind to install them on a
stock setup. Forsake me not.

The investment idea is intriguing, been working on a spec house for two years and it is
a slow process. I see an ETF idea forming...

 

[rsporsche]

FWIW, sending my headers out to Jet Hot and back didn't compute so I found a shop specializing in high temp ceramic coating locally. I chose their Titanium finish and I love the way they turned out. Black and Chrome were two other options however, for a spirited driver they didn't recommend the chrome since it can discolor especially when carbs are running too lean or too rich. They say the chrome is best for show cars. The cost was $200 for the set to be coated.

As for Stahl vs. Ireland, I bought both sets to compare. While I do appreciate Ireland and their products I have to say it was an easy choice for me to select Stahl even at the higher price point. The Stahl workmanship and materials used were superior - the Stahl welds were of artisan quality. Ireland accepted theirs back without question and I will continue to support Ireland for other parts in the future.

Anyone interested in the this group buy should run towards this purchase at this price.

Here are a few close up shots of the Stahl welds...

Tom,
what size did you buy - what are your observations and what is your engine build (cam / head upgrade)?

 

[David]

David, you were the guinea pig I had in mind to install them on a
stock setup.

Ha! You over estimate my ability to get anything on this car going.

http://e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12831&page=6

I nominate deQuincey.

 

[Bert Poliakoff]

i know that Jere Stahl was king of the long tube header ... not sure about the small diameter thing. interesting, the articles also compared headers by ed as a long tube guru along with stahl. the article by ed was enlightening.don't care too much what the thought on the e28 board is ... it depends on where you want to make power, and what you want the throttle response to be. for me, i want an increase in power below 4000rpm. so that's is smaller tube. if your goal is ultimate power at the top end - go with the 1.625. the biggest i would consider is 1.5, but i think i will be happiest with 1.375. that's what the articles that were posted led me to believe. that's what korman's people tell me. bigger is NOT necessarily better in this case. but its your money, your dreams, do what you want and what suits your goals.cheers

Not sure where the e28 board you mentioned comes into play. The early E24s are merely the E9s big cousin. With the engines changes on the E9s to 3.5s, we are all pretty much in the same boat to obtain better performance. Based on that, I would think any opinions regarding an M30 engine should be taken into account. Including the concept that when you start getting into the 284 range on a cam, there will be some low RPM torque lost.

For you guys considering a cam, you should talk to Gerry at Schneider Cams. He can do a regrind for $125 or a whole new one if you desire can be done also.The fact that Frank Fahey uses him should speak for itself.

 

[Stevehose]

I also find myself getting caught up in this, but I still would like to know if the frame rail will need to be notched for these to fit?

 

[Stan]

Tom P says no. The notch was already there and was not necessary

 

[rsporsche]

I also find myself getting caught up in this, but I still would like to know if the frame rail will need to be notched for these to fit?

Steve,

Korman said no - but i have no personal first hand experience

 

[Tom P]

I went with 1-3/8" based on advise from Jere Stahl and Carl at Korman. I have an all original B35 and stock head with the 264 K cam and dual springs. I'm running triple DCOE 40's. I originally felt 1-1/2" would be best but they kept saying bigger isn't better unless I step up to triple 45's and a hotter cam. After that the full race option would use 1-5/8". I haven't had a chance to drive it more than 4mi home from exhaust and tuning so I can't offer any real feedback yet. Working to finish interior now then alignment. I can tell you I am seeking a good balance across three objectives - make the car look good, sound good and drive good - maximizing the HP isn't my goal.

As for the notch, Stan is right, it was already cut when I bought the car. Hard to say if it helped during install since I wasn't really paying attention to it. Bolting them up was pretty easy but I think that was more likely due to my request to Stahl to leave the headers straight - I didn't want the 90 degree return to center welded on each piece so he left that off. My exhaust guy took care of that piece. Having that piece on might increase the challenge of install - just guessing.

At this price I'm considering a second set!

 

[Stan]

A minor detail

So far I have checked 3 coupes
They all have the frame rail notched

 

[rsporsche]

did you get a pic of how the rail is notched?

 

[JFENG]

Sven has a picture of the bare engine bay with notch

did you get a pic of how the rail is notched?

Sven,
You're photo album is the one I go to most often for photos of the bodywork.
DeQuincy's photos are also unbelievably good (his series on the rear window trim/felt/rubber) were Oscar quality.

Anyway, Sven's photo shows the notch. Maybe he has some closeups.

http://www.larsenarchitect.com/BMW/Sections/Paint Prep/BMW PaintPrepFrameset.html

 

[Sven]

Top view of rail

John & others;

Here is a better photo of the engine bay notch. It's exactly the same on both of the rails. The notch on the driver's side clears the power steering box (i believe). These notches are stock. I did not cut them in.

Is there additional notching that needs to happen to fit the headers?

 

[JFENG]

Everybody's engine bay

John & others;

Here is a better photo of the engine bay notch. It's exactly the same on both of the rails. The notch on the driver's side clears the power steering box (i believe). These notches are stock. I did not cut them in.

Is there additional notching that needs to happen to fit the headers?

Everyone should wish their engine bay looked that nice before the powertrain goes in
Great picture, Sven

 

[Simufly]

Header?

Forgive a Limey but what exactly is a header?

 

[Nicad]

It is a tube exhaust manifold, rather than the stock , heavier and potentially more restrictive cast iron exhaust manifold. The upside to the stock manifold is it will be quieter, last a long, long time and be designed by BMW engineers to strike the correct compromises. Apparently you get more heat in the cabin with headers too.

 

[rsporsche]

time to set a date to commit by

Guys,

if we are going to do this, i need some commitments. so far, its Stan + I for sure. then there are some possible maybe candidates (you know who you are). by this sunday, 13 june at midnight eastern time (or by the time i get to the office on monday morning when i open email) ... we are either going to do this or we are not.

so let me know ...
thanks

scott

 

[David]

I'm in for the 6+ discount.
I don't know what I'm going to do with them yet, but I'm sure I'll kick myself if I don't get them while I can.

 

[Brian D]

Yep, same here, definitely in but it has to be the 6+ price for me to be able to do it.