Solved - bad engine noise!!

[BarneyT]

To me second noise, it sounded like a fan noise, it was a Hollow. It doesn’t sound like metal.

the first sound, sounds like valve train to me…check the oil rod on top of head is working and I would re-adjust the valves…

 

[Stevehose]

Is the cam lobe on #4 exhaust darker than the others? Don't see as much oil splash on that one also.

All lobes are in good shape and getting oil, thanks.

 

[Stevehose]

Why is your oil spray bar , all beaten up ?
And then what is the rusty or copper looking item moving around
Is it possible that your oil spray bar is blocked and due to lack of lubricant something is slightly seized on the rocker shaft ?

The oil spray bar has the old school "pinch mod" to increase the flow to the ends of the rod, which it does as the oil flows out well. The rusty thing movig around is the LED light shining on the cam lobe from behind, it's normal looking without the light.

 

[Stevehose]

To me second noise, it sounded like a fan noise, it was a Hollow. It doesn’t sound like metal.

the first sound, sounds like valve train to me…check the oil rod on top of head is working and I would re-adjust the valves…

I've checked the fan and the rod bar is delivering lots of oil, in person the sound seems deeper than the valve train but I am taking a break and will revisit everything once more. I don't mind pulling the head if I knew it would lead me to a solution.

 

[HB Chris]

My guess is rocker shaft and rocker arm issue where the shaft is worn or the arm itself is worn and moves about when running.

 

[bluecoupe30!]

The oil spray bar has the old school "pinch mod" to increase the flow to the ends of the rod, which it does as the oil flows out well. The rusty thing movig around is the LED light shining on the cam lobe from behind, it's normal looking without the light.

Ah the "pinch mod". Back in 1976, when I bought my first Healey. a valve adjustment revealed a similar "pinch" in the oil pipe that fed the rocker shaft. I was aghast! Right? I mean that was mouth-open, WTF-worthy. Replaced with new, unobstructed pipe, and the engine burned oil like crazy! Rocker shaft came off for first renovation. Still have this Healey, oil management, much more civilized. Good luck Steve.

 

[mulberryworks]

Slowing the video down is interesting. It does seem like it is on pace with the valve train and one of the exhaust valves is right in time with the knock. Reality is that a stethoscope (even long screwdriver or rod up to the ears) might help to pinpoint.

Damn bad luck Steve.

Wow, what are the chances that a valve guide has come loose? That could explain the intermittent nature of this noise and the fact that the compression numbers are all good. I'd think it's a rare failure mode, but it's possible.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

A noise not in the valve train can mimic a valve train noise (once every two revolutions). A head gasket leaking to the outside on a compression or power stroke for instance.

 

[Stevehose]

Slowing the video down is interesting. It does seem like it is on pace with the valve train and one of the exhaust valves is right in time with the knock. Reality is that a stethoscope (even long screwdriver or rod up to the ears) might help to pinpoint.

Damn bad luck Steve.

Are you referring to #3 cylinder exhaust valve? It seems to be in sync with the noise in the 3rd video

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

Are you referring to #3 cylinder exhaust valve? It seems to be in sync with the noise in the 3rd video

But it could be any valve/lifter/rocker/etc since all are moving at exactly the same rate.

 

[boonies]

Are you referring to #3 cylinder exhaust valve? It seems to be in sync with the noise in the 3rd video

Yes, that was the one I ended up focusing on from a timing of the noise at slow speed.

But it could be any valve/lifter/rocker/etc since all are moving at exactly the same rate.

Agree, it is impossible to diagnose without being face to face, and likely without disasembly as Steve plans. It is easy to armchair (as I am with a cup of coffee at the moment) guess.

 

[JFENG]

Wow, what are the chances that a valve guide has come loose? That could explain the intermittent nature of this noise and the fact that the compression numbers are all good. I'd think it's a rare failure mode, but it's possible.

I’ve suffered loose valve seats before in an aluminum OHC motor and it’s a much lighter sound than the deep knocking in your video. It’s more of a heavy tick.

The video sounds more like a rod knock. Does it get worse under load?

Finally, a Lisle auto stethoscope is $20, and will help pinpoint noises quickly.

 

[Stevehose]

I’ve suffered loose valve seats before in an aluminum OHC motor and it’s a much lighter sound than the deep knocking in your video. It’s more of a heavy tick.

The video sounds more like a rod knock. Does it get worse under load?

Finally, a Lisle auto stethoscope is $20, and will help pinpoint noises quickly.

Yes, it's a deeper knock than a valve seat would seemingly be capable of. The car is on stands so not driveable but I did a plug pull on each cylinder with no change in noise. @jjs2800cs is coming over for a listen in the next few days and we'll put the stethoscope on it again.

 

[Stevehose]

@jjs2800cs came by today for a listen, we used the stethoscope and agreed it seems to sound loudest on the 2 head bolts on either side of #1 cylinder intake valve side. I removed the belts to see if it was the water pump and no luck. Next I will again scope the intake valve through the carb throat and the cylinder through the spark plug hole. Hard to see the condition of the inner valve spring if broken but nothing looks wrong there.

I filmed the cam gear but it looks ok:

Getting closer to head removal.

 

[Ohmess]

On our barn find e24, BMWSKI and I found one of the eccentrics was installed backwards making it impossible to make a proper adjustment. We had a milder, but somewhat similar noise

After listening to your video, Tom asks, are you sure all your valves are properly adjusted.

 

[Stevehose]

On our barn find e24, BMWSKI and I found one of the eccentrics was installed backwards making it impossible to make a proper adjustment. We had a milder, but somewhat similar noise

After listening to your video, Tom asks, are you sure all your valves are properly adjusted.

Yes valves have been checked and double checked thanks.

 

[sfdon]

Remove all 3 fan belts and start engine.

 

[Stevehose]

Remove all 3 fan belts and start engine.

I did that earlier today and no luck was hoping for water pump so on to the final scope tomorrow

 

[jjs2800cs]

When I visited yesterday with Steve, the noise as the various videos depict is quite pronounced., and seems to be happening with each cam rotation. Sound like metal on metal for sure at least in my opinion.

We had talked about hooking up his timing light and use the strobe effect to see if the the cycle of tap tap noise is in sync with the number one firing. Not sure this will tell anything but we could not get his timing light to work. I suppose one could also hook it up to number two or any plug wire. Hopefully he can get his light working if not I can loan him one.

Jeff

 

[Stevehose]

I scoped the cylinders again today, I must have missed this (or made it worse during the diagnosis phase) but cylinder #2 is showing signs of trauma:

I spoke to a well-regarded, local racing machine shop that can work on european engines (@jjs2800cs had his 2800cs head done there) that I was planning on bringing my head to anyway so now it's looking like a full engine rebuild is in the works. My goals are:

1. Rebuild this original block (unless it's f'd up from this but I will try anything to save it). I want original engine with stealth upgrades.
2. 10-1 pistons (or thereabout - please recommend manufacturers and comp ratios)
3. Rebuild head with the Schrick 284 cam
4. Overhaul the 3 Webers
5. Massive amounts of "while I'm in there" projects
6. Have this back on the road in November

I will need and gladly welcome feedback as to what I am doing right/wrong so have at it.

Once I pull the head I will post the results for closure here then start a separate rebuild thread.

This car has been amazing to own and it deserves to be put back better than ever, I've put 60k trouble free miles on it in <13 years. Thanks for the input and stay tuned!