Impressive thread with diagrams and arrows! My head is spinning, I cannot even figure out how my Toto toilet seat cover works, so I hope my E9 hood spring never breaks.
help to understand the opening spring of the front hood
- Thread starter deQuincey
- Start date
The band or the dog? Having some tunes would be cool.
Oops, guess you meant this?
http://www.nationalbuildersupply.com/p/toto-sw55411-bidet-seat.html
Toto Elongated Heated Seat Bidet Seat With Remote Control With Dryer
Toto SW554#11 Bidet Seat
Oops, guess you meant this?
http://www.nationalbuildersupply.com/p/toto-sw55411-bidet-seat.html
Toto Elongated Heated Seat Bidet Seat With Remote Control With Dryer
Toto SW554#11 Bidet Seat
the final question
this is the geometry of my spring-bars without tension, 90º between each end, and a visible curvature
this is the aspect of my assembly (left side), as it would be in the car but not pre-stressed, you can see that the top arm lays vertical and in front of the "L-bracket" (similar to the position "1" i mentioned a couple of posts ago)
if this is the case, i can do what i was thinking in my solution mentioned before, stress from the green line position to the red one (and everything installed in the car),....but
... i can not say that this is the correct preassembly, because this mechanism can be mounted this way or turned 180º, see drawing:
remark: the initial positions are considered without tension:
both A, and B pre-assemblies are possible, and now comes the question, (specially to mr HBchris), forget about the impossibility to penetrate the hood (is represented only to understand the relative positions), if you remember your pre-stressing work, which one was the rotation angle, the small one like A or the big one like B
with this answer i can solve the quiz !
regards
this is the geometry of my spring-bars without tension, 90º between each end, and a visible curvature
this is the aspect of my assembly (left side), as it would be in the car but not pre-stressed, you can see that the top arm lays vertical and in front of the "L-bracket" (similar to the position "1" i mentioned a couple of posts ago)
if this is the case, i can do what i was thinking in my solution mentioned before, stress from the green line position to the red one (and everything installed in the car),....but
... i can not say that this is the correct preassembly, because this mechanism can be mounted this way or turned 180º, see drawing:
remark: the initial positions are considered without tension:
both A, and B pre-assemblies are possible, and now comes the question, (specially to mr HBchris), forget about the impossibility to penetrate the hood (is represented only to understand the relative positions), if you remember your pre-stressing work, which one was the rotation angle, the small one like A or the big one like B
with this answer i can solve the quiz !
regards
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jmackro
Well-Known Member
Does this photo that I posted last summer answer your question?
helpful photos
thank you
it seems that the curvature of the bars is normal
but i can see some differences with my old torsion bars, i can not tell from the photos, but it seems that you do not have a 90º configuration between extreme ends in each bar, it seems a 0º
can you confirm ?
thank you
it seems that the curvature of the bars is normal
but i can see some differences with my old torsion bars, i can not tell from the photos, but it seems that you do not have a 90º configuration between extreme ends in each bar, it seems a 0º
can you confirm ?
thanks again
sorry but i think that the photo can not answer the question, maybe i have to explain myself better:
your photo is showing the final situation of a correct assembly, in the position in which the arm interferes with the L-bracket
but my question is: which is the correct initial position of the top arm in the pre-assembly when the system is not in tension ? that is what i am representing in the drawing of positions A or B (it is fictional, you will not assembly the whole thing without tension in the car, but which one will be the good pre-stressed initial position to reach your final assembly, the A or the B)
i mention this because both pre-assemblies are possible, (it depends on which torsion bar you introduce from the left or from the right side of the tube), and one is wrong
do i explained it better now ?
sorry but i think that the photo can not answer the question, maybe i have to explain myself better:
your photo is showing the final situation of a correct assembly, in the position in which the arm interferes with the L-bracket
but my question is: which is the correct initial position of the top arm in the pre-assembly when the system is not in tension ? that is what i am representing in the drawing of positions A or B (it is fictional, you will not assembly the whole thing without tension in the car, but which one will be the good pre-stressed initial position to reach your final assembly, the A or the B)
i mention this because both pre-assemblies are possible, (it depends on which torsion bar you introduce from the left or from the right side of the tube), and one is wrong
do i explained it better now ?
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JhwShark
Well-Known Member
This is an excellent thread...though I observe, challenging to get into (understand) precise details between parties...a very important thread! I empathize with the issue and hope resolution is soon, and without trouble.
SO...when does "Torsion Bar -- The Movie" come out??
I had to say it...if only a video exsisted.
Jon
SO...when does "Torsion Bar -- The Movie" come out??
I had to say it...if only a video exsisted.Jon
+1
dThis is an excellent thread...though I observe, challenging to get into (understand) precise details between parties...a very important thread! I empathize with the issue and hope resolution is soon, and without trouble.
my god !, yes please without trouble and/or accidents !
SO...when does "Torsion Bar -- The Movie" come out??
i also agree on this, a video could help a lot !
Jon
jmackro
Well-Known Member
OK, it's "A". I guess Chris is right - if it were "B", the torsion bar would be twisted 360 degrees from rest when the hood was closed.
And yes, it is difficult and somewhat dangerous to pre-twist the torsion bars. Wear gloves and safety goggles. I bolted my hood prop assembly to a piece of angle iron, and clamped that in a vise. At one point, one of my tensioned arms applied enough force to the "L" bracket to bend it, allowing the arm to snap back to its resting position. I would not have wanted to get hit by the flying arm ! That's why I doubled up the "L" brackets.
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Jay,
It would have to be A. It can't be mounted in this position, it would be poking thru the hood of course. But once loaded, pushing the hood down loads it further, that is the purpose. It unloads tension as the hood is raised. We didn't rotate it 270 degrees, I think that is impossible. I couldn't believe how much tension existed before we moved it into position. I almost feared for my safety!
Chris
It would have to be A. It can't be mounted in this position, it would be poking thru the hood of course. But once loaded, pushing the hood down loads it further, that is the purpose. It unloads tension as the hood is raised. We didn't rotate it 270 degrees, I think that is impossible. I couldn't believe how much tension existed before we moved it into position. I almost feared for my safety!
Chris
hello chris
i appreciate your response. it will be A, so my pre-assembly is correct !
but: "It can't be mounted in this position, it would be poking thru the hood of course", is not true in my case
let me explain, in the following picture you are seeing the actual status of the pre-assembly without stress (and you can see the left side), this is the A case !
this means that i can go to the car with this and I WILL MOUNT IT IN THE CAR ! without "poking through the hood", it will be standing at the INITIAL POSITION of the A case
anyway you are not wrong, the question is that probably my torsion bars are not correct (i mean, all those 38 years had deformed the bar ends and the relative angles from one end to the other are not correct)
what do you think ?
the fact is that now i can try to assembly this condition and test it, and maybe i will come to an end ordering new torsion bars ! or maybe not !
thank you for your valuable help
jmackro
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree: I think you need new torsion bars.
This is why I originally said that "B was correct" - because with new torsion bars, the assembly can not be attached to the hood before it is pre-loaded. With new bars, the arms are further forward in the resting position, and would interfere with the hood. But, your torsion bars are sprung enough that the arms' resting position is far enough back to allow the assembly to be mounted.
Go ahead an mount the assembly to your car as-is. What I predict you will find is that the old torsion bars do not produce enough force to hold the hood open.
JhwShark
Well-Known Member
I should have added this earlier...
I believe they're called pivot bolts...try a fastener shop (maybe online) or ask the local hardware dealer for ordering ability...you'll need the dimensions.
Jon
I agree with Jay, can't view those photos here at work, they get blocked so can't see until tonight.
Hood prop hex bolt
For sake of originality/ future purists:
1.dQ's bolt/ fastener photo- is that an original part?
2. Painted or cad or y-cad finish?
3. The part number shows up still as good. M8, but absent detail. FYI, Penske also shows the tension rods as $14 ea.
4. If dQ would be so kind to produce a sketch showing the bolt detail, a standard hex bolt may/could be modified. Add a s.s. sleeve ( bushing), larger than the body clip in od, so it would tighten.
5. Are the correct washers waved spring?
Thanks in advance.
For sake of originality/ future purists:
1.dQ's bolt/ fastener photo- is that an original part?
2. Painted or cad or y-cad finish?
3. The part number shows up still as good. M8, but absent detail. FYI, Penske also shows the tension rods as $14 ea.
4. If dQ would be so kind to produce a sketch showing the bolt detail, a standard hex bolt may/could be modified. Add a s.s. sleeve ( bushing), larger than the body clip in od, so it would tighten.
5. Are the correct washers waved spring?
Thanks in advance.
need a translator to standard english !
hope these were the answers (...if only those were the questions !)
For sake of originality/ future purists:
1.dQ's bolt/ fastener photo- is that an original part?
i found these bolts, in my car, i assume they are original
the washers and nuts are new (stainless), please take care of my assembly, cause the nut is a secure one, otherwise an aditional grower washer next to the nut is needed
2. Painted or cad or y-cad finish?
pardon me ? i am not sure of what is your question, but i will say that i have repainted my parts from bare metal + rust converter + primer coat + 2coats of black paint
regarding the bolts i will left them unpainted
3. The part number shows up still as good. M8, but absent detail. FYI, Penske also shows the tension rods as $14 ea.
i have seen that also in BMWFANS, but i have not checked availability in BMW dealer
4. If dQ would be so kind to produce a sketch showing the bolt detail, a standard hex bolt may/could be modified. Add a s.s. sleeve ( bushing), larger than the body clip in od, so it would tighten.
not really sure about that what you say, i think it will be pretty easy to reproduce the function of this assembly with standard bolts + washers + a small bushing, provided you understand the pretended function see sketch (correct function is B), by the way, i would add another washer near the big hexagonal head to reduce the play and improve contact:
5. Are the correct washers waved spring?
pardon me again? the washers i am using are not of that type, but conventional washers i don´t think you will need the others, provided you clamp those two washers to bite the fender support through nut-bolt tension
Thanks in advance.
hope these were the answers (...if only those were the questions !)
Thanks.
Most of the questions center around what is original. The engine compartment had many yellow cadmium plated fasteners and other metal finishes depending upon the part. The parts books sometimes give this information in the case of fasteners in the form of a code by which presumably they ordered.( Porsche does) I am simply trying to see if someone here knows as sometimes it's just a personal preference of a given owner, mechanic, and or restorer rather than documented.
On the fastener, would you pls. measure the shoulder?
I have seen and heard of many prop arms cracked at the welds. What the dimesion tells me is that play is supposed to be there. I can imagine that the arms get bent and as the hood opens, closes and the tension becomes greater, and that a bent arm can crack as I surmise it does. So there must be a vertical alignment of sorts within reason. I know that when I test fit my prop I had to align them side to side and parralel. No where have I seen this mentioned.
Most of the questions center around what is original. The engine compartment had many yellow cadmium plated fasteners and other metal finishes depending upon the part. The parts books sometimes give this information in the case of fasteners in the form of a code by which presumably they ordered.( Porsche does) I am simply trying to see if someone here knows as sometimes it's just a personal preference of a given owner, mechanic, and or restorer rather than documented.
On the fastener, would you pls. measure the shoulder?
I have seen and heard of many prop arms cracked at the welds. What the dimesion tells me is that play is supposed to be there. I can imagine that the arms get bent and as the hood opens, closes and the tension becomes greater, and that a bent arm can crack as I surmise it does. So there must be a vertical alignment of sorts within reason. I know that when I test fit my prop I had to align them side to side and parralel. No where have I seen this mentioned.
Mine also weakened at the weld and when I went to open the hood it snapped and the arm impacted the inner fender.
,Thanks.
On the fastener, would you pls. measure the shoulder?
certainly sir:
is this what you wanted ?
regards
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