ZF vs Getrag driveability

[Arde]

How is driving an e9 with the 4-speed ZF. I do not think I ever drove a ZF manual coupe. Actually I do not think I drove any other coupe.

As for the footwell number if I ever have my own shop I will take the Karmann plate number and write it in random hidden places for owners to discover speculate and ponder.

 

[Markos]

I’ve only driven my ZF manual and a 3.0 with a very sloppy Getrag shifter. As we know the Getrag can be tightened up with care and some aftermarket parts. Given how neglected my car is, I can say that I
agree with others that the ZF is a more precise engagement. Some say it is tractor like. Engagement is notchier than a getrag.

The ZF design is quite different from a Getrag. The getrag has a single selector shaft that goes in and out, and rotates - engaged by a shift rod pivoting on a ball. We’ve all seen the pic of the various Getrag shift levers, such as the short Z3 version.

The ZF has a series of long rectangular selector shafts that only slide forward and back. The shift lever picks which shaft to move forward or back. As a result, it has a gated shifter feel to it.

The ZF box has the selector shafts tightly enclosed in the aluminum housing. A shift lever and pivot bolts to the selector housing. It is all very rigid.

Top down look at the box that the shifter bolts to. These are the selector shafts. Note the notch that the shift lever will slide into, to pick the shaft.

The 262 has single selector rod circlipped to a rubber isolated aka “flexy” sheet metal shift platform. Funny that all of those $600 rally shifter boxes that bolt to the tunnel are attempting to replicate the ZF design, and result in a similar feel.

G262:

 

[jjs2800cs]

I’ve only driven my ZF manual and a 3.0 with a very sloppy Getrag shifter. As we know the Getrag can be tightened up with care and some aftermarket parts. Given how neglected my car is, I can say that I
agree with others that the ZF is a more precise engagement. Some say it is tractor like. Engagement is notchier than a getrag.

The ZF design is quite different from a Getrag. The getrag has a single selector shaft that goes in and out, and rotates - engaged by a shift rod pivoting on a ball. We’ve all seen the pic of the various Getrag shift levers, such as the short Z3 version.

The ZF has a series of long rectangular selector shafts that only slide forward and back. The shift lever picks which shaft to move forward or back. As a result, it has a gated shifter feel to it.

The ZF box has the selector shafts tightly enclosed in the aluminum housing. A shift lever and pivot bolts to the selector housing. It is all very rigid.
View attachment 121541

Top down look at the box that the shifter bolts to. These are the selector shafts. Note the notch that the shift lever will slide into, to pick the shaft.
View attachment 121542

The 262 has single selector rod circlipped to a rubber isolated aka “flexy” sheet metal shift platform. Funny that all of those $600 rally shifter boxes that bolt to the tunnel are attempting to replicate the ZF design, and result in a similar feel.

G262:
View attachment 121544

My recollection is indeed the ZF was a bit more precise.

Did ZF ever make a 5-speed that would fit in the E9? I do not remember ever coming across such a tranny.

Size wise the 4 speed looks more compact the five speed 265. Not sure about any weight difference.

jjs2800cs

 

[Markos]

Did ZF ever make a 5-speed that would fit in the E9? I do not remember ever coming across such a tranny.

Yes but the BMW cases are somewhat rare and expensive. Used quite a bit in motorsport. The BMW case is different from most others. You can build one with the front half of the 4spd case, center section of a 5spd, new tail housing, output shaft, selector housing, etc. Not cheap either way. A pet project for me down the road as I have both 4spd and 5spd cases. New ZF parts are readily available unlike Getrag, as well as new ZF and aftermarket gear sets. Gearbox is an S5-18/3.

 

[Markos]

@Arde & @jjs2800cs ,

I split the transmission conversation into
a dedicated thread. Others may wish to chime in and we were hijacking the core topic.

 

[Arde]

Yes but the BMW cases are somewhat rare and expensive. Used quite a bit in motorsport. The BMW case is different from most others. You can build one with the front half of the 4spd case, center section of a 5spd, new tail housing, output shaft, selector housing, etc. Not cheap either way. A pet project for me down the road as I have both 4spd and 5spd cases. New ZF parts are readily available unlike Getrag, as well as new ZF and aftermarket gear sets. Gearbox is an S5-18/3.

Ok, do we start a group buy thread for 5-speed ZFs?

 

[dang]

My E9 has a 4-spd ZF and my E3 has a 4-spd Getrag. My description would be, when I drive my coupe I feel like I'm in control of the gears. When I drive my E3 it feels like the gearbox is in control. Silky smooth versus, "Nope, can't shift like that".

 

[Stevehose]

A ZF 5-speed, huh? Hmmm.....

 

[Markos]

A ZF 5-speed, huh? Hmmm.....

You are a perfect candidate. I know at least two members with one sitting in their shop.

The main difference between the BMW S5-18/3 and others is the four bolt bellhousing mating area on the front portion of the case. The BMW has four bolts and most others have six. I believe that the Alfa Montreal is four and the tail housing/speedo drive is the same also.

This is where the four speed case comes in handy, as it matches the BMW five speed. The four speed isn’t a dogleg though, and there are some minor tweaks to the case. Also, most of the 5spd cases although doglegs, aren’t close ratio. It’s a lot of effort to build one of these and use overdrive gears IMO.

You can also buy straight cut gears and dog engagements if you want a super loud and clunky bulletproof gearbox on the street.

ZF S5-18/3 GEARBOX PARTS Archivi - Gr-Box

 

[Arde]

A ZF 5-speed, huh? Hmmm.....

Actually I think I would be happy with a ZF 4-speed with its 4th gear being a bit over drive. But then again I could do that by changing the differential and using the ZF-4 as is. Or even add an electrically controlled overdrive after the transmission like Volvos had. Or maybe the Spanish motto "renovarse es vivir" I am trying to live by has me constantly looking for re-invigorating change. I would love to use a subscription service where you get a different transmission/differential installed every 6 months until you are happy. They have that for mattresses don't they?

 

[Stevehose]

Same ratios as the Getrag 5 speed overdrive?

 

[dang]

Actually I think I would be happy with a ZF 4-speed with its 4th gear being a bit over drive. But then again I could do that by changing the differential and using the ZF-4 as is. Or even add an electrically controlled overdrive after the transmission like Volvos had. Or maybe the Spanish motto "renovarse es vivir" I am trying to live by has me constantly looking for re-invigorating change. I would love to use a subscription service where you get a different transmission/differential installed every 6 months until you are happy. They have that for mattresses don't they?

It would be cheaper to get REALLY tall tires.

 

[JFENG]

I have a getrag OD and also getrag CR (dogleg pattern). I had a ZF 4spd and a ZF CR 5spd. I agree that the getrags are smoother and therefore are perceived by many as being more refined. The ZF was very mechanical/precise with higher transmission of vibration, and I think most interpret this as less refined (less isolating). Every modern vehicle designer I know would judge them this way.

I prefer the ZF, but understand they sell for >3x more than a getrag OD. I believe I’m in the quirky minority in this. FWIW, I like straight cut first gears, and prefer the more challenging experience of driving an xk120 over a series 1 E-type.

 

[HB Chris]

I love the ZF in our 70 2800, gear changes are snick, snick.

 

[craterface]

Another thumbs up for Getrag 4 speed. Not as good as my 1970 Alfa though.

 

[JFENG]

Another thumbs up for Getrag 4 speed. Not as good as my 1970 Alfa though.

Stock Alfa gearbox? Mine is too smooth and a bit squishy (105 coupe).

 

[Markos]

Stock Alfa gearbox? Mine is too smooth and a bit squishy (105 coupe).

Alfa Montreal to be precise. Not exactly problem solver for a rare BMW parts issue.

 

[craterface]

Stock Alfa gearbox? Mine is too smooth and a bit squishy (105 coupe).

Yes, stock box in a Jr Z, which is better than the one in my old Duetto and old GTV, maybe because my JrZ may not have been driven as much (never was a DD for anyone, although TMU).

 

[bmw2800cs]

How is driving an e9 with the 4-speed ZF. I do not think I ever drove a ZF manual coupe. Actually I do not think I drove any other coupe.

As for the footwell number if I ever have my own shop I will take the Karmann plate number and write it in random hidden places for owners to discover speculate and ponder.

Hey Arde, my 2800cs is in the shop right now, it should be out in a few weeks. If you'd like you can take it for a drive. I'm in San Jose. I like my ZF, I wonder if a Getrag 4 speed is quieter.

 

[Arde]

Hey Arde, my 2800cs is in the shop right now, it should be out in a few weeks. If you'd like you can take it for a drive. I'm in San Jose. I like my ZF, I wonder if a Getrag 4 speed is quieter.

Sure, that would be cool.