Staggered 17 inch Style 5s

[loloe13]

cheers Ron
thank you!

Gavin,

They should fit fine, just run a 245-45-17 tire. You may need to do a fender roll, but I doubt it. Nice score!

 

[ccmguy8]

Tires rub!

Heys guys,

So I test fitted one of my 17x8 style 5's with 225/45/17 Michelin Pilot Super Sports today and I was bummed to find that the inside of the tire was rubbing pretty badly on the strut housing. :-( My impression was that it would fit without rubbing. :confused: My car is lowered on Carl Nelson springs and front spacers are removed. I only tried the driver's side front wheel. Would it make much difference regarding clearance to try installing both front wheels? If not, it looks like I'll need spacers for the front. Any suggestions where to get them?

 

[gdub0717]

3mm spacers on 235's and fenders rolled

I have 235/45/17 tires.
3mm spacers. Fit OK without changing lugs.
Had to roll the fenders after the outside of my tires were chewed up some.
Car is not lowered but spacers are removed or never installed.(Euro car)

I was able to go to a local car performance shop and they had them. Any size and universal. Tire shops don't seem to have them maybe because it is a liability issue.

Looks like you definitely need thicker spacers and you definitely should roll the fenders; if not already done.

 

[ccmguy8]

Thanks gdub. Fenders are already rolled. Wouldn't I need hub centric spacers?

 

[decoupe]

My 225/45 on 17x8 wheels don't rub but very close (1-2mm) - fenders are rolled and fixed negative camber plates. What may make a difference are the fixed camber plates that tip the strut in by a little less than 1 degree that I run - Ireland Engineering I think. Spacers would be cheaper but then you may be making the fender issues worse.

Good luck.

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

My 225/45 on 17x8 wheels don't rub but very close (1-2mm) - fenders are rolled and fixed negative camber plates. What may make a difference are the fixed camber plates that tip the strut in by a little less than 1 degree that I run - Ireland Engineering I think. Spacers would be cheaper but then you may be making the fender issues worse.

Good luck.

That doesn’t quite make any sense to me, if you move the top of the strut inward (towards negative camber) the tire follows right along with the strut, the distance between the two where it hits doesn’t change at all. Going to more negative camber will help with more clearance between the tire’s outer edge and the top of the fender lip but the distance between the strut and the inside of the tire remains constant. Going to a narrower rim and or tires, a rim with more positive offset or the spacers are your only alternatives. I’m not a big fan of moving the front wheels outward on any car because it increases steering load & feedback but having said that the 3mm spacers mentioned aren’t much, you can certainly get away with moving the wheels that small amount. ~ John Buchtenkirch

 

[decoupe]

John, yeah that makes sense - the whole assembly has to tip in not just the strut.

Guess this is a case of every car is different as mine don't rub with the same tire size and make and wheel size.

Doug

 

[afeustel]

ccmguy8 - yes you likely need hubcentric rings for those wheels. The best on the market are found here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/74-1-72-56-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

These are metal and not plastic or aluminum. For spacers, I used the following:
http://www.velocitymotorcars.com/
The 3 mm BMW spacers were $45 taxes in.

 

[gdub0717]

Yep- I purchased the metal ones from Ebay

The ones afeustel mentioned are the same ones I purchased.
These with the 3mm spacers were OK.

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

John, yeah that makes sense - the whole assembly has to tip in not just the strut.

Guess this is a case of every car is different as mine don't rub with the same tire size and make and wheel size.

Doug

Doug, being that you say the rim width & tire are the same the most obvious difference could possibly be the offset of the wheels which I’m thinking is marked on the backside of the wheel ? Another possibility is BMW made hubs that the wheel bolts to with different offsets ? If all of that is the same I’m suspecting a bent strut which certainly could be possible on a 40 year old car, I would say to try the same rim & tire on the other side of the car to see if the interference is the same. ~ John Buchtenkirch

 

[bimbill]

PM sent

 

[E911]

Camber...

My L came with the same wheels on it and they just cleared the struts with no spacers... the difference being my car has a little more camber from the factory.

A set of camber plates should take care of the problem. IMO, spacers will only move your problem outward and you'll be more likely to damage a tire, fender, or both.

Regards- Richard

 

['69 2800cs]

No...camber plates will not solve the issue. The relation of the wheel rim to the strut is fixed.

Spacing the wheel out or going to a narrower tire size (or brand) are your only options.

Or bending the strut...which is a bad idea.

 

[E911]

Makes sense on the fixed relationship... and modifying the strut would be going the wrong way on handling if you didn't relocate it too... and spacers create a new set of issues with the front wheels.

The age old dilemma... where to stop?

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

I find it interesting that some people have the same wheels that do clear OK….. makes me think there are 2 wheels that look the same but have different offsets or a slightly bent strut on the problem car. If the camber plates move the top of the strut inward it will not help, the tire moves right along with the strut, just what I covered in post #26. ~ John Buchtenkirch

 

['69 2800cs]

John-IMO the issue is the tire size and design. Take a look at the earlier pics-that is a very plump tire, putting a lot of rubber outside the edge of the rim. I find that even more interesting as it's a 225 tire...the original E39 fitment is a 235 tire. I think that tire is just big for it's size.

Regarding differing offsets, I think your point is correct just not in this case. The E39 style 5's are very common, 17x8 and ET20. There are the ultra rare 17x9 style 5's, and there may have been an E36 fitment with more offset, but they are not common and they have a much smaller outside lip. You'd know it if you saw it.

 

[decoupe]

I find it interesting that some people have the same wheels that do clear OK….. makes me think there are 2 wheels that look the same but have different offsets or a slightly bent strut on the problem car. If the camber plates move the top of the strut inward it will not help, the tire moves right along with the strut, just what I covered in post #26. ~ John Buchtenkirch

John, your points about the wheels made me want to recheck the wheels and as it turns out one wheel has clearance and the other rubs very slightly. That wheel went in to get a minor bend straightened and for some reason the company milled the hub face to clean off the scale - just enough as it turns out to cause the wheel to rub. The wheels are ET 20 17x8 like most of the others in this thread.

I'm guessing that regardless of what size from 215/225/235 is used the heavy rubber rand on most/all modern tires at the wheel lip will rub because the 8" wheel is at the limit of what will fit next to the strut. Wheel width of 7.5x17 would be better and they make both the Style 5 and 42 in that width but ET 41 - so no luck there.

All in the pursuit of happiness.

 

[decoupe]

Makes sense on the fixed relationship... and modifying the strut would be going the wrong way on handling if you didn't relocate it too... and spacers create a new set of issues with the front wheels.

The age old dilemma... where to stop?

E911 - your car? That's gorgeous - Verona or something else?

Do you think 3mm (1/8") increase on each corner will have a negative effect? Just increasing the tire width one size is triple that. I've gone from 205/16 to 225/17 with no negatives - just positives.

Doug

 

[E911]

Doug, thanks and I'm not sure what red it is (not original color)- I suspect Henna or Verona?

As far as spacers- they will correct the inner rub issue but the margin for error is near zero on an E9 with this size wheel and tire combo and I would worry about outer edge interference problems. I suspect that every one of our cars is different and that they will vary from side to side on the same car.

It comes down to test fitting and adjusting when you remove all margin for error.

69 2800CS makes a good point on the tire shape/profile too...

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

John, your points about the wheels made me want to recheck the wheels and as it turns out one wheel has clearance and the other rubs very slightly. That wheel went in to get a minor bend straightened and for some reason the company milled the hub face to clean off the scale - just enough as it turns out to cause the wheel to rub. The wheels are ET 20 17x8 like most of the others in this thread.

I'm guessing that regardless of what size from 215/225/235 is used the heavy rubber rand on most/all modern tires at the wheel lip will rub because the 8" wheel is at the limit of what will fit next to the strut. Wheel width of 7.5x17 would be better and they make both the Style 5 and 42 in that width but ET 41 - so no luck there.

All in the pursuit of happiness.

Hum, sounds to me like some previous owner caught a curb which caused a slight bit of rim run-out. The wheel company machined the hub slightly to true an expensive wheel (I don't buy into the scale idea) and increased the back-spacing slightly. I would say to use that wheel on the rear and you will probably be fine.

As far as our coupes being all different I certainly believe the bodies assembled at Karmann have slight variations but machined parts like engine, drivetrain and suspension parts are held to a very high standard. IMO the struts would be held to that high standard but you have to realize that on 40 year old cars there are probably many that have slightly bent suspension parts that are compensated for by the person doing the wheel alignment. ~ John Buchtenkirch