S38 is loose in the garage

[nydesmo]

This weekend my friends and I unbolted an S38 from an 88' M5 and plan to install it in my CS asap.

For those who've installed S38's please help with some questions I need to solve.

1.) The connection from the motor to the fuse box has 10+ wires. Does anyone have a diagram of what wires need to be used and what they are for?

2.) Power steering - Is there a difference between the CS and M5 and if I use the CS unit, will the pulley's align with belts?

3.) AC pump - My CS system blows cold and has been upgraded, should it be changed to the M5. Will the CS unit's pulley align with belts?

4.) Fuel lines - Is there a way to pull the fuel lines through the body?

5.) Fuel Tank - Any tricks to tapping a return line?

6.) My CS already has a 265/5 in it. Is it possible to install the motor with a 265/5 trans mounted and access the bolts at the top of the engine/trans?

7.) Will the M5 rear suspension and LSD differential bolt in?

8.) Has anyone tried to install M5 brakes on the front of a CS?

9.) 2002tii Brake Booster - Does anyone know where to find one in stock? Is there an alternate I can purchase?

Thanks for sharing.

Best,
Greg

 

[decoupe]

For number 9. on your list try the Parts Wanted on the www.bmw2002faq.com forum
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,50/page,viewforum/f,17/ - that's where I bought mine from - Sherman Martinez.

 

[rb1971]

This weekend my friends and I unbolted an S38 from an 88' M5 and plan to install it in my CS asap.

For those who've installed S38's please help with some questions I need to solve.

1.) The connection from the motor to the fuse box has 10+ wires. Does anyone have a diagram of what wires need to be used and what they are for?

2.) Power steering - Is there a difference between the CS and M5 and if I use the CS unit, will the pulley's align with belts?

3.) AC pump - My CS system blows cold and has been upgraded, should it be changed to the M5. Will the CS unit's pulley align with belts?

4.) Fuel lines - Is there a way to pull the fuel lines through the body?

5.) Fuel Tank - Any tricks to tapping a return line?

6.) My CS already has a 265/5 in it. Is it possible to install the motor with a 265/5 trans mounted and access the bolts at the top of the engine/trans?

7.) Will the M5 rear suspension and LSD differential bolt in?

8.) Has anyone tried to install M5 brakes on the front of a CS?

9.) 2002tii Brake Booster - Does anyone know where to find one in stock? Is there an alternate I can purchase?

Thanks for sharing.

Best,
Greg

A couple of responses for things I now about

7 - no, you have to make quite a few cuts. I've been happy with the performance of my side loader LSD so far.

8 - Wilwood makes a big brake kit. But you're probably not going to overrun the stock stoppers.

9 - I'm running an M1 hydrobooster, available from the dealer.

 

[wazza.csi]

Is the M5 an E28 or E34??

 

[wazza.csi]

I have looked at fitting the complete E28 Suspension setup into my E9 Coupe, The front chassis Rails are the same width E28-E9 but you will need to weld the rear mount for the Castor arms onto your Chassis in the correct place, and you will need to change the top hats on the front struts, and I am sure there will be a few other mods you will need to do as well, would be a lot of work but this setup will allow you to run the M5 ABS.
For the rear end the Beam is the mounting Bolts are the same width as the E9 but I havent
yet tried to fit up the diff and Trailing arms (should not be to much work) you will also need to look at your rear strut top mounts. Will be an interesting challenge if you have the time and the willpower and I am sure there will be a lot of interest here!!
Good luck Cheers Warren

 

[nydesmo]

DeCoupe - Thank you for the tip, I emailed a 'for sale post' that had a booster, fingers crossed.

RB1971 - Thanks for sharing this info.
7.) Differential - The one in my E9 is not a LSD, so I am thinking of making the change because I have the E28/M5 unit in hand.

8.) Brakes - I am trying to find efficiency's by using as much of the M5 as possible. I was also thinking of trying sway bars and seats that need recovering.

9.) Brake Booster - Thanks for the M1 tip.

Wazza.CSI - Warren, its an 1988 E28 M5 ... Thank you for your knowledge of the front / rear suspension of the two cars. The rear seems straight forward, the front seems like a lot of engineering. I want to get the motor into the car and running, do not think I will tackle prior.

Thanks everyone,
Greg

 

[rb1971]

DeCoupe - Thank you for the tip, I emailed a 'for sale post' that had a booster, fingers crossed.

RB1971 - Thanks for sharing this info.
7.) Differential - The one in my E9 is not a LSD, so I am thinking of making the change because I have the E28/M5 unit in hand.

8.) Brakes - I am trying to find efficiency's by using as much of the M5 as possible. I was also thinking of trying sway bars and seats that need recovering.

9.) Brake Booster - Thanks for the M1 tip.

Wazza.CSI - Warren, its an 1988 E28 M5 ... Thank you for your knowledge of the front / rear suspension of the two cars. The rear seems straight forward, the front seems like a lot of engineering. I want to get the motor into the car and running, do not think I will tackle prior.

Thanks everyone,
Greg

I found an operational side loader for about $500. If you can source one, you're probably better off sticking with that *unless* you're going to redo the whole rear end. We had a whole rear M5 subframe and considered that approach, but ultimately I decided that the coupe's handling characteristics would potentially be adversely impacted by those sorts of changes. YMMV of course. Also, Rob at Precision Gearing near LA will build you a side loader LSD out of your open LSD.

Sway bars - I went with the La Jolla kit.

Seats - fitment might be an issue. I went with period repros from Classic Car Seats. Stefan was great to work with.

 

[x_atlas0]

This weekend my friends and I unbolted an S38 from an 88' M5 and plan to install it in my CS asap.

For those who've installed S38's please help with some questions I need to solve.

1.) The connection from the motor to the fuse box has 10+ wires. Does anyone have a diagram of what wires need to be used and what they are for?

You will need to check the E28 wiring manual. Motronic, in general, is relatively self-contained. It needs a couple of chassis inputs, but most of the outputs go to the cluster and are not needed.

2.) Power steering - Is there a difference between the CS and M5 and if I use the CS unit, will the pulley's align with belts?
If you use a hydroboost braking system, you will have to use the E28 power steering pump.
3.) AC pump - My CS system blows cold and has been upgraded, should it be changed to the M5. Will the CS unit's pulley align with belts?
Not sure.
4.) Fuel lines - Is there a way to pull the fuel lines through the body?
The best thing I found was to keep it tight by the frame rail.
5.) Fuel Tank - Any tricks to tapping a return line?
Aside from "Don't blow yourself up", draining and removing the tank worked well. I took the opportunity to have the tank cleaned and painted.
6.) My CS already has a 265/5 in it. Is it possible to install the motor with a 265/5 trans mounted and access the bolts at the top of the engine/trans?
I found it easiest to bolt up the trans with everything out of the car, then just remove the trans via the 4 large bolts behind the bellhousing. That made mounting the trans much easier when combined with a set of metric S-wrenches.
7.) Will the M5 rear suspension and LSD differential bolt in?
Others have chimed in on this.
8.) Has anyone tried to install M5 brakes on the front of a CS?
Don't know.
9.) 2002tii Brake Booster - Does anyone know where to find one in stock? Is there an alternate I can purchase?
As others have said, you can use the hydroboost system from E28s instead of the 2002tii booster, but it also means using the secondary systems too. I found my 2002tii booster on ebay, for what it is worth.

 

[sfdon]

a couple of pics from the m88 that I am currently working on Coupeking.
Fired her up today and ran wonderfully. You might consider getting a custom made 3.7 or 3.9 diff
to match the engine properly.

7 wires interface the engine to the car

The b35 power steering pump works also

fuel lines go under the car until the trunk- there is an opening to the left of the primary line for a return

You don't tap the tank- you install a new pump with a return line in it.

I never take a hood off to pull an engine- make the car "kneel" and pull the engine over the fender.
Remove the tranny 1st- its only a couple hours of work. Use a tranny jack

 

[sfdon]

pics....

m88

 

[BarryG]

Very clean Don & the euro headers fit.

 

[sfdon]

I'm just the troubleshooter on this job- the previous wrench was very,very good at what he did.
Sadly he died before finishing.

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

I never take a hood off to pull an engine- make the car "kneel" and pull the engine over the fender.
Remove the tranny 1st- its only a couple hours of work. Use a tranny jack

Makes sense to me, aligning coupe hoods could be opening a bag snakes and if you chip the paint :-( it becomes your problem. Many coupe hoods have too big of a gap in the front and when you close that gap up there’s a good chance of hitting the header panel when the hood is opened. Mine clears with about the thickness of a business card. What holds the hood open on this particular swap ? ~ John Buchtenkirch

 

[sfdon]

Theres actually plenty of room.. I pull the right wheel off and drop the car down to a few inches space between brake rotor and floor. Up and out it goes.

Hoods suck......

 

[nydesmo]

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge. The information gathered in this thread is wonderful.

SFDon, thanks for sharing the inspiring photo's and I will be installing the motor in a kneeling car with the hood in place. If there is any information you can share to specify / identity the 7 interface wires it would be of great help. I've downloaded and looked over a wiring diagram, but it has yet to provide clues.

Has anyone mounted M5 front brakes to a E9 front end?

Best,
Greg

 

[sfdon]

7 wires need to get spliced into your cs to make your car into a Fuel injected car.

The black wire from the ignition switch need to become a black/yellow wire at the starter.

The blue wire at the firewall needs to go to the alternator

The brown/green wire goes to the oil pressure sensor

the black wire goes to coil

the brown/white goes to the temp gauge sensor

The green wire goes to the coil

the green/violet wire goes to fuel pump

 

[nydesmo]

SFDon,

You have a new best friend !!! Thank you so very much for sharing this information, it will save us many hours of experimentation and is greatly appreciated.

Greg

 

[pamp]

sfdon...the best in the west

In my opinion. Here is a guy, ace mechanic, who has a backlog of deep pocket customers lining up at his door....where money is no object. Yet he still finds the time to make council on this forum for commoners and royalty alike. A rare personality.
That said, one upgrade sfdon recommended to me was the 320i intake runners for the d-jet log. My friend in Alberta sent me a set....another great guy and thanks again, Doug. I measured volume of the two....300 cc vs 355 cc. Took manifold vacuum readings before and after for a net gain of 1.5 to 2.0 inches. No other modifications needed, a straight bolt-on show. Doug did some dyno pulls with this set up and reports a 3 to 5% gain across the board. Cool....to have friends such as these guys.

 

[sfdon]

Thanks for the kind words....
If I run my boat out of fuel I'm gonna call you for help

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

Don helped me out at least 3 times on my coupe’s 5 speed conversion. I never really think of myself as a mechanic (just a broken down old body man) but I’ve done enough clutch & brake jobs that I figure I have light mechanical jobs like that covered. The BMW clutch slave cylinder that looks like it bleeds from the top but actually bleeds from the middle of the bore sure had me going. THANKS DON, I’m sure I eventually would have figured something out but you saved me a bunch of aggravation & Tums. ~ John Buchtenkirch