TodB
Well-Known Member
IMO, pretty strong money yesterday (at least more than I would pay) for the Greek 2002 and the striped CSi. That said, I do agree the market has softened.
NE1 seeing a softening of used car prices lately?
- Thread starter teahead
- Start date
today's update - 36 sold / 19 bid to (65.45% sold)
great day (numbers wise) on BaT - 46 sold / 8 bid to (85% sold) some of the prices seem a bit low -
1964 porsche 356c - 64k
2011 aston martin v8 vantage - 50k
2002 ferrari 360 spyder - 55.9k
1964 porsche 356c - 64k
2011 aston martin v8 vantage - 50k
2002 ferrari 360 spyder - 55.9k
Its interesting that my dealer friends who sell exotics both wholesale and retail say that business has fallen flat yet BaT and other retail systems are still cruising along.. Ebay, Facebook marketplace, etc still have traffic and good sales.
bidding frenzy followed by "how do I explain this to the wife"????
i think BaT has realized this and has probably pushed the reserves lower if somebody wants to list. i look at some of the numbers and think they are selling but most for less than expected.
Some dynamics at play: social distancing and stay at home orders prevent "walk in" sales. People financially hurt by stock marked may be looking to sell to get liquidity.
I've been watching BAT for the last few weeks and cars do seem to be selling and some of them with pretty suprising results. I also apreciate rsporsche's almost daily update! 
Since I was already in discussions with BAT on my M3 (the only way they would take it was 'No Reserve'), I decided to take the plunge. The auction went live Thursday, and so far the bidding activity has been a little better than expected. Especially now, we need to add to our savings and, more importantly, I have to get my wife's car back in the garage. Fingers crossed!
bringatrailer.com
Since I was already in discussions with BAT on my M3 (the only way they would take it was 'No Reserve'), I decided to take the plunge. The auction went live Thursday, and so far the bidding activity has been a little better than expected. Especially now, we need to add to our savings and, more importantly, I have to get my wife's car back in the garage. Fingers crossed!
No Reserve: 1999 BMW M3 Convertible
Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 1999 BMW M3 Convertible at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #30,239.
Vince I hope you get all the money for this car ... we are pulling for you
Thanks Scott!!
I've noticed a lot more 'No Reserve' auctions on BaT. I guess it's one way they can be sure they have a pay day in these times of an uncertain market.
BTW...good luck with the sale!
i think you are correct Dick. only taking Vince's beautiful e36 M3 as no reserve is a good example
From Bloomberg...
Bring a Trailer, the website that sells vintage cars online in weekly auctions, has followed suit. After a brief drop in sales during the second week of March, the online car seller has seen web traffic and sales surge.
“Yesterday was our largest traffic day ever, and four out of our five best days ever for traffic have been in the past week,” says founder Randy Nonnenberg, speaking via phone on April 8. BAT has seen normal sell-through rates of roughly 70% through the spring. For the first week of April, sales were 95% of what they were the first week of March.
Bring a Trailer, the website that sells vintage cars online in weekly auctions, has followed suit. After a brief drop in sales during the second week of March, the online car seller has seen web traffic and sales surge.
“Yesterday was our largest traffic day ever, and four out of our five best days ever for traffic have been in the past week,” says founder Randy Nonnenberg, speaking via phone on April 8. BAT has seen normal sell-through rates of roughly 70% through the spring. For the first week of April, sales were 95% of what they were the first week of March.
Really bummed that the number on Vince's M3 is still so low ... with 15 minutes to go its only at 9k ... hopefully with 3 or so bidders it will jump up significantly
Haseeb
Well-Known Member
That red bmw should definitely have sold for more, sorry Vince
only brought 11k - ouch
I've had it advertised for months at 14K with no real action. It is a beautiful car but, for sure, being an automatic held it back. I was hoping for more but told myself I'd be happy with anything over 10k in this current climate. I bought the car really well so I'm good.
Funny, I talked to the new owners last night. His wife was the one doing the bidding, they had a limit and she went over it. He said she really wanted it. I'm happy for them, they are going to love it.
My wife is super happy that her car will be back in the garage and that we'll have a little boost to our savings account.
Funny, I talked to the new owners last night. His wife was the one doing the bidding, they had a limit and she went over it. He said she really wanted it. I'm happy for them, they are going to love it.
My wife is super happy that her car will be back in the garage and that we'll have a little boost to our savings account.
glad you came out okay Vince and i am certain that the new buyers will be very happy.
This in a portion of an email I received from BaT...
Hi Dick,
BaT continues to see record site traffic and strong results this month. Here are some statistics on auction activity through the first two weeks of April (and % change from April, 2019):
Total # of bids: 16,265 (+35%)
Value of lots sold: $13,571,969 (+35%)
New users: 7,573 (+49% )
Average auction views: 14,552 (+4%)
Average auction watchers: 785 (+24%)
I'm happy to see BaT succeed and thrive even in these times which, for most, must be a difficult car market. I've been following them for a long time...well before they started the auction venue. They are a talented bunch of car guys. Good on them!
The first car they ran of mine was my modified Alfa Romeo Giulietta that I had on eBay. It was in 2009 and before they were doing auctions. I'm sure their featuring of the car helped the price (Giulietta prices have sure changed in the last 10 years!).
https://bringatrailer.com/2009/06/23/50-year-mexican-1958-alfa-romeo-giulietta/
They sold my Daimler V8 250 and my stock MGB with their auction format...
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-daimler-v8-250/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-mgb-touring/
Hi Dick,
BaT continues to see record site traffic and strong results this month. Here are some statistics on auction activity through the first two weeks of April (and % change from April, 2019):
Total # of bids: 16,265 (+35%)
Value of lots sold: $13,571,969 (+35%)
New users: 7,573 (+49% )
Average auction views: 14,552 (+4%)
Average auction watchers: 785 (+24%)
I'm happy to see BaT succeed and thrive even in these times which, for most, must be a difficult car market. I've been following them for a long time...well before they started the auction venue. They are a talented bunch of car guys. Good on them!
The first car they ran of mine was my modified Alfa Romeo Giulietta that I had on eBay. It was in 2009 and before they were doing auctions. I'm sure their featuring of the car helped the price (Giulietta prices have sure changed in the last 10 years!).
https://bringatrailer.com/2009/06/23/50-year-mexican-1958-alfa-romeo-giulietta/
They sold my Daimler V8 250 and my stock MGB with their auction format...
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-daimler-v8-250/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-mgb-touring/
In the mainstream market, prices have already started falling. According to Tyson Jominy, Vice President of J.D. Power PIN Consulting, the last two weeks of March saw the two largest-ever declines of average used-car transaction prices.
"Vehicles at auction move around in a fairly small range on average. But now, in two weeks we saw it decline 10 percentage points, which is just phenomenal," Jominy told Road & Track.
But the market still hasn't found a floor. Based on data through April 19, J.D. Power's index of used vehicle auction prices has fallen over 17 percent. Prices continue to decline, though at a slower rate than they did in late March.
Used car volumes are falling, too. With so many sales avenues closed and so few customers ready or able to leave their houses, mainstream used cars just aren't trading hands. In the long term, that may boost values as supply on the secondhand market dwindles, but for now the inability to register private vehicles in some states may push down prices on more accessible enthusiast cars.
That's true for new cars, too. Part of the reason for the quick decline in used-car prices, Jominy says, is that manufacturers are offering aggressive discounts on new inventory. With such good deals on that side of the business, there's little appetite for late-model used cars. A pre-owned Hyundai looks a lot less attractive when you can get a brand-new Veloster N with zero-percent financing for 84 months and defer your first payment for 120 days. GM, Ford, FCA, and others are offering similarly aggressive finance offers, making new enthusiast cars more affordable than ever.
But the story is more complicated for enthusiasts and collectors at the higher end of the used market. JD Power's data mostly focuses on franchise dealers and dealer auctions, which tend to cover the mainstream market. For special-interest cars, Jominy notes that the rarity of these vehicles tends to support their values even in a bad economy.
That's delaying the impact on the high-end enthusiast sector. Kenneth Ahn, president of famed auction house RM Sotheby's, tells R&T the company's Palm Beach auction—which moved to an online-only format in response to the outbreak—had similar sell-through rates as pre-COVID in-person events. And with an average transaction price around $80,000, the auction actually exceeded projections.
But that may not hold. Historically, Ahn says, you see values drop across the board when the economy sours. That hadn't happened by the time of the Palm Beach auction, but it's what Ahn expects to see at upcoming events.
"Initially, it's shock and awe," he told Road & Track. Transaction volumes often go up, driven by owners forced to sell quickly, and opportunistic buyers tend to push down the price averages. Buyers with a lot of security and liquidity may assume that means fire-sale deals, but note that you're unlikely to see a true collapse in the automotive market. Cars, unlike traditional financial investments, have emotional and practical value that prevent them from truly cratering.
"You could say that a car cannot go bust," Dietrich Hatlapa, founder of automotive investment research firm Historic Auto Group International, told Road & Track. "If you invest in the wrong company and they go bust, you are left with nothing. Cars have what in financial speak is called intrinsic value, so they have some residual value."
Hatlapa's firm, HAGI, tracks collector car prices as a financial asset class. And while mainstream car values tracked by J.D. Power may have plummeted at the end of March, HAGI's indices for Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes, Lamborghini, and other top historic cars all posted gains in March. Rally, a firm that trades shares of collector cars as a financial asset class, also hasn't seen a drop yet. Still, the experts at HAGI, RM Sotheby's, and Rally all agree: prices are likely to fall.
"If you look at it historically, I wouldn't ever call it a collapse, but you do see some compression in values on the back end of a major financial displacement," Chris Bruno, CEO of Rally, told Road & Track.
And even at the extremely high end of the market, values tend to drop during a crisis. But it's not because the buyers suddenly find themselves cash-strapped.
“It’s not socially acceptable, especially if you own a company that just laid off 1000 people, to go buy a $10 million Ferrari, and honestly that multi-million dollar segment of the market that was in trouble before the pandemic anyway” Colin Comer, Hagerty’s valuation editor and owner of Colin’s Classic Auto, told Road & Track. “But the 'meat' of the market, the sub-$500k cars and especially sub-$100k cars, are holding strong.”
Eventually, the values of flashy or specialty vehicle at all ends of the market spectrum will fall, even if it takes a while. In the short-term, that means that buyers with cash can likely find a good deal on something desirable. You may not score a sports car for 50-percent off, but you're likely to find double-digit drops in value for a lot of desirable cars.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...e/a32070950/should-i-sell-my-car-coronavirus/
"Vehicles at auction move around in a fairly small range on average. But now, in two weeks we saw it decline 10 percentage points, which is just phenomenal," Jominy told Road & Track.
But the market still hasn't found a floor. Based on data through April 19, J.D. Power's index of used vehicle auction prices has fallen over 17 percent. Prices continue to decline, though at a slower rate than they did in late March.
Used car volumes are falling, too. With so many sales avenues closed and so few customers ready or able to leave their houses, mainstream used cars just aren't trading hands. In the long term, that may boost values as supply on the secondhand market dwindles, but for now the inability to register private vehicles in some states may push down prices on more accessible enthusiast cars.
That's true for new cars, too. Part of the reason for the quick decline in used-car prices, Jominy says, is that manufacturers are offering aggressive discounts on new inventory. With such good deals on that side of the business, there's little appetite for late-model used cars. A pre-owned Hyundai looks a lot less attractive when you can get a brand-new Veloster N with zero-percent financing for 84 months and defer your first payment for 120 days. GM, Ford, FCA, and others are offering similarly aggressive finance offers, making new enthusiast cars more affordable than ever.
But the story is more complicated for enthusiasts and collectors at the higher end of the used market. JD Power's data mostly focuses on franchise dealers and dealer auctions, which tend to cover the mainstream market. For special-interest cars, Jominy notes that the rarity of these vehicles tends to support their values even in a bad economy.
That's delaying the impact on the high-end enthusiast sector. Kenneth Ahn, president of famed auction house RM Sotheby's, tells R&T the company's Palm Beach auction—which moved to an online-only format in response to the outbreak—had similar sell-through rates as pre-COVID in-person events. And with an average transaction price around $80,000, the auction actually exceeded projections.
But that may not hold. Historically, Ahn says, you see values drop across the board when the economy sours. That hadn't happened by the time of the Palm Beach auction, but it's what Ahn expects to see at upcoming events.
"Initially, it's shock and awe," he told Road & Track. Transaction volumes often go up, driven by owners forced to sell quickly, and opportunistic buyers tend to push down the price averages. Buyers with a lot of security and liquidity may assume that means fire-sale deals, but note that you're unlikely to see a true collapse in the automotive market. Cars, unlike traditional financial investments, have emotional and practical value that prevent them from truly cratering.
"You could say that a car cannot go bust," Dietrich Hatlapa, founder of automotive investment research firm Historic Auto Group International, told Road & Track. "If you invest in the wrong company and they go bust, you are left with nothing. Cars have what in financial speak is called intrinsic value, so they have some residual value."
Hatlapa's firm, HAGI, tracks collector car prices as a financial asset class. And while mainstream car values tracked by J.D. Power may have plummeted at the end of March, HAGI's indices for Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes, Lamborghini, and other top historic cars all posted gains in March. Rally, a firm that trades shares of collector cars as a financial asset class, also hasn't seen a drop yet. Still, the experts at HAGI, RM Sotheby's, and Rally all agree: prices are likely to fall.
"If you look at it historically, I wouldn't ever call it a collapse, but you do see some compression in values on the back end of a major financial displacement," Chris Bruno, CEO of Rally, told Road & Track.
And even at the extremely high end of the market, values tend to drop during a crisis. But it's not because the buyers suddenly find themselves cash-strapped.
“It’s not socially acceptable, especially if you own a company that just laid off 1000 people, to go buy a $10 million Ferrari, and honestly that multi-million dollar segment of the market that was in trouble before the pandemic anyway” Colin Comer, Hagerty’s valuation editor and owner of Colin’s Classic Auto, told Road & Track. “But the 'meat' of the market, the sub-$500k cars and especially sub-$100k cars, are holding strong.”
Eventually, the values of flashy or specialty vehicle at all ends of the market spectrum will fall, even if it takes a while. In the short-term, that means that buyers with cash can likely find a good deal on something desirable. You may not score a sports car for 50-percent off, but you're likely to find double-digit drops in value for a lot of desirable cars.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...e/a32070950/should-i-sell-my-car-coronavirus/