MegaSquirt EFI Conversion

Sven

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I have just completed converting my CS to fuel injection using the MegaSquirt MS-II electronics and CSi /735i hardware, and am now in the tuning phase. Has anyone used this system? I am trying to sort out the Spark Advance Table. The 3.0 CS shop manual has some general information regarding spark advance settings. Alternatively, does anyone know if there is a published advance table/data for the Motronic 1.3 ecu on an M30 engine that might make for a good starting point?

Thanks,
Sven
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Philip Slate

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The shop that did the final ECU wiring on TBL put a mega squirt on a 3.5 with a turbo on another car. Obviously different than your set up but perhaps it will at least be a place to start, especially getting the car to start and idle. Contact Ron at [email protected] on Monday.
 

MichaelP

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Sven said:
Alternatively, does anyone know if there is a published advance table/data for the Motronic 1.3 ecu on an M30 engine that might make for a good starting point?

If no one else pipes up here (I think Chris M. has done this to his coupe, but I haven't seen his name pop up in a while), there are a number of E12 folks who have done it (from b35/1.3), so search around or post at firstfives.org. You might try searching mye28.com as well for info/tables.

Alternatively, there is a good MSII forum (what doesn't have a forum these days?) at: http://www.msefi.com/index.php?c=2
 

Bert-Ola

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Here are some theoretical spark advance numbers for an two valve six cylinder engine with bore size 88->102mm and 95 octane.

Kpa
100 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 18 . . 21 . . 22 . . 23 . . 24 . . 25 . . 27 . . 28 . . 29 . . 30 . . 31 . . 32 . . 33
_90 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 20 . . 23 . . 24 . . 25 . . 26 . . 27 . . 28 . . 29 . . 30 . . 32 . . 33 . . 34 . . 35
_80 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 22 . . 25 . . 26 . . 27 . . 28 . . 29 . . 30 . . 31 . . 32 . . 33 . . 34 . . 36 . . 37
_70 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 23 . . 26 . . 28 . . 29 . . 30 . . 31 . . 32 . . 33 . . 34 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 38
_65 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 24 . . 27 . . 28 . . 30 . . 31 . . 32 . . 33 . . 34 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 38 . . 39
_60 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 25 . . 28 . . 29 . . 30 . . 32 . . 33 . . 34 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 38 . . 39 . . 40
_55 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 26 . . 29 . . 30 . . 31 . . 32 . . 34 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 38 . . 39 . . 40 . . 41
_45 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 28 . . 31 . . 32 . . 33 . . 34 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 39 . . 40 . . 41 . . 42 . . 43
_35 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 30 . . 33 . . 34 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 38 . . 39 . . 40 . . 41 . . 43 . . 44 . . 45
_30 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 31 . . 34 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 38 . . 39 . . 40 . . 41 . . 42 . . 43 . . 45 . . 46
_25 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 32 . . 35 . . 36 . . 37 . . 38 . . 39 . . 40 . . 41 . . 42 . . 43 . . 44 . . 45 . . 46
_20 . . 18 . . 15 . . 15 . . 32 . . 35 . . 37 . . 38 . . 39 . . 40 . . 41 . . 42 . . 43 . . 44 . . 45 . . 46 . . 46

Rpm . .400 .800 .1200 .1600 .2000 .2400 .2800 .3200 .3600 .4000 .4400 .4800 .5200 .5600 .6000 .6400
 
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TodB

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MS

Check out the mye28.com forum, specifically the turbo section. There's a fellow on that board, First Fives Dictator, who is one of the resident MS gurus who could probably cut your learning curve quite a bit.
 

Sven

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Thanks for all your input. I am starting up the learning curve.
Sven
 

chicane

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Sven said:
I have just completed converting my CS to fuel injection using the MegaSquirt MS-II electronics and CSi /735i hardware, and am now in the tuning phase. Has anyone used this system? I am trying to sort out the Spark Advance Table. The 3.0 CS shop manual has some general information regarding spark advance settings. Alternatively, does anyone know if there is a published advance table/data for the Motronic 1.3 ecu on an M30 engine that might make for a good starting point?

Thanks,
Sven
Seattle

Can you post pics and instructions of your conversion?
 

Sven

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The basics: MegaSquirt II extra (http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/). Another good site for the hardware is http://www.diyautotune.com/

If you spend some time working through the applicable portions of this site and other MS sites it should come together. I recall somewhere seeing someone adapt the D-Jet ECU box/wiring harness (I have no idea now, but it involved gutting the ECU and adding the new board).

I started from a CS configuration, which meant building a new wiring harness – not a big deal. Most of my parts were scavenged from a 735i (1991)

Fuel – Added new fuel supply line from the tank and used the old line for the return. Then added an in-tank pre-pump (16 14 1 179 415) with a sending unit (16 14 1 152 266) and main pump (16 14 1 179 232). I Installed an adjustable pressure regulator near the custom built aluminum clamp-on fuel rail (no more short hoses to each injector). The existing fuel rail can probably be used.

Ignition – I used the 60-2 tooth wheel (at front of engine) & VR sensor (all straight bolt on). You will need to fix the distributor so is does not advance via mechanical or vacuum means. I finally got rid of it and am using a Bosch 3-coil wasted spark pack, again, with some mods the ECU.

Coolant sensor – The CS coolant housing needs an addition coolant sensor for the MS system. You may be able to tap a new port into the housing. I used the newer housing which has room for 3 sensors.

Air temp sensor – I tapped this into the right side of the air intake plenum.

O2 sensor – I added a wide band sensor to the front exhaust manifold along with the Innovate LC-1 controller. A bung was brazed on the rear of the front manifold. I had to trim a small corner off of the heat shield. In the future I would like to add a second WB O2 sensor to the other manifold.

Air measuring – The MAP sensor is built into the MS ECU. I added a second MAP sensor to compensate for altitude. The great part is that the MAP sensor allows you to use your current D-Jet airbox and bellows to the throttle. This is an elegant solution: you only need to run a vacuum hose from the intake plenum port to the MS ECU box. None of the newer air flow or mass metering is needed.

TPS – MS requires a 0-100% TPS. The CSI version is either open or closed, so will need to be replaced with a newer unit (13 61 1 726 591). You will need to modify the butterfly shaft and build an adaptor plate to fit the existing throttle body. I wanted to maintain the mechanical linkage to the gas pedal. I used a throttle body from a 1976 vintage M30.

Cold start fuel valve - deleted. This can be removed from the side of the plenum. I used this port for connecting to the idle air control valve (Bosch 3-wire type) to the port on the throttle body. The MS system uses the main injectors to added fuel during starting. There are various settings for various temperatures at cold starting and transition to operating temp.

Some of these modifications involve getting into the MS ECU box and soldering, adding wires, etc (scary and fun with a fair amount of support available).

The most difficult part is the tuning. You have a spark advance, VE and AFR table to layout. There are some programs to help with tuning, but you will definitely need to spend some time on the dyno. I got the system running on the 3 liter engine before I tore the car apart for some resto work. , I expect to be incorporating it onto the rebuilt 3.5 l engine and spending more time on the dyno.

The above is a work in progress and I hope to add more descriptions, references, photos in the future, as time and motivation allow.
 

chicane

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Sven said:
The basics: MegaSquirt II extra (http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/). Another good site for the hardware is http://www.diyautotune.com/

If you spend some time working through the applicable portions of this site and other MS sites it should come together. I recall somewhere seeing someone adapt the D-Jet ECU box/wiring harness (I have no idea now, but it involved gutting the ECU and adding the new board).

I started from a CS configuration, which meant building a new wiring harness – not a big deal. Most of my parts were scavenged from a 735i (1991)

Fuel – Added new fuel supply line from the tank and used the old line for the return. Then added an in-tank pre-pump (16 14 1 179 415) with a sending unit (16 14 1 152 266) and main pump (16 14 1 179 232). I Installed an adjustable pressure regulator near the custom built aluminum clamp-on fuel rail (no more short hoses to each injector). The existing fuel rail can probably be used.

Ignition – I used the 60-2 tooth wheel (at front of engine) & VR sensor (all straight bolt on). You will need to fix the distributor so is does not advance via mechanical or vacuum means. I finally got rid of it and am using a Bosch 3-coil wasted spark pack, again, with some mods the ECU.

Coolant sensor – The CS coolant housing needs an addition coolant sensor for the MS system. You may be able to tap a new port into the housing. I used the newer housing which has room for 3 sensors.

Air temp sensor – I tapped this into the right side of the air intake plenum.

O2 sensor – I added a wide band sensor to the front exhaust manifold along with the Innovate LC-1 controller. A bung was brazed on the rear of the front manifold. I had to trim a small corner off of the heat shield. In the future I would like to add a second WB O2 sensor to the other manifold.

Air measuring – The MAP sensor is built into the MS ECU. I added a second MAP sensor to compensate for altitude. The great part is that the MAP sensor allows you to use your current D-Jet airbox and bellows to the throttle. This is an elegant solution: you only need to run a vacuum hose from the intake plenum port to the MS ECU box. None of the newer air flow or mass metering is needed.

TPS – MS requires a 0-100% TPS. The CSI version is either open or closed, so will need to be replaced with a newer unit (13 61 1 726 591). You will need to modify the butterfly shaft and build an adaptor plate to fit the existing throttle body. I wanted to maintain the mechanical linkage to the gas pedal. I used a throttle body from a 1976 vintage M30.

Cold start fuel valve - deleted. This can be removed from the side of the plenum. I used this port for connecting to the idle air control valve (Bosch 3-wire type) to the port on the throttle body. The MS system uses the main injectors to added fuel during starting. There are various settings for various temperatures at cold starting and transition to operating temp.

Some of these modifications involve getting into the MS ECU box and soldering, adding wires, etc (scary and fun with a fair amount of support available).

The most difficult part is the tuning. You have a spark advance, VE and AFR table to layout. There are some programs to help with tuning, but you will definitely need to spend some time on the dyno. I got the system running on the 3 liter engine before I tore the car apart for some resto work. , I expect to be incorporating it onto the rebuilt 3.5 l engine and spending more time on the dyno.

The above is a work in progress and I hope to add more descriptions, references, photos in the future, as time and motivation allow.

Very cool, so you are not using the stock air pressure regulator, correct?
Do you have any pics of the above items?
 

Sven

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Correct, there is no air pressure regulator needed. I started from a CS and never had this. To tell you the truth, I am not entirely sure what it even does.

Here are two general engine compartment views. The wires all come to a relay board mounted along side of the brake booster. I have since built a box to more neatly house this mess. If you eliminate the relay board you could run all the wires directly back to the ECU above the glove box. The vacuum lines coming off of the intake log, from left to right: Main MAP sensor, brake booster, idle control valve (runs over top of log), fuel pressure regulator, and second MAP sensor.





Relay board close up:


Timing wheel and VR sensor at front of engine:


O2 sensor bung on manifold. You can also see the VR sensor at the timing wheel on the right.


Close up of idle control valve. The photo is a bit fuzzy. You may be able to make out the TPS.


Wasted spark ignition. I fabricated a bracket to mount this unit where the former distributor clamp bolt was mounted. It looks a bit like the Motronic setup.


Some fuel rail shots. In the first view you can see the relay board mounts and the fuel pressure regulator.








That is it for the photos I have a present.
 

CsChuck14

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those fotos are great, i was wondering tho, you said you deleted the original distributor, and now the bosh 3coil-spark is controlled entirely by you and your computer?, and the ecu when your not tuning it?
 

CsChuck14

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those fotos are great, i was wondering tho, you said you deleted the original distributor, and now the bosh 3coil-spark is controlled entirely by you and your computer?, and the ecu when your not tuning it?
 

Sven

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I do not really understand your question.

There are three outputs from the MS ECU that drive the coil pack. It is controlled by the MS software, any retard or advance is electronic and based on engine load, temperature, and O2 feedback.
 

Sven

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I do not really understand your question.

There are three outputs from the MS ECU that drive the coil pack. It is controlled by the MS software, any retard or advance is electronic and based on engine load, temperature, and O2 feedback.
 

gazzol

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Hi Sven, well done on what you've achieved up to now, great work! I'm looking into mega squirt my self for when I comlpete my individual throttle bodies conversion. I want to run the ram pipes open and my current set up is L-jetronic which runs the restrictive mass air flow meter. I can't help with your original question regarding the ignition map but my idea to get me a base map was to "map" the current advance curve of the distributor with a timing light. I was going to do this this coming weekend so if you're still in need of this info let me know and I'll post it up when I've done it.
PS would you let me have your msq when you get it done?
 

gazzol

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Hi Sven, well done on what you've achieved up to now, great work! I'm looking into mega squirt my self for when I comlpete my individual throttle bodies conversion. I want to run the ram pipes open and my current set up is L-jetronic which runs the restrictive mass air flow meter. I can't help with your original question regarding the ignition map but my idea to get me a base map was to "map" the current advance curve of the distributor with a timing light. I was going to do this this coming weekend so if you're still in need of this info let me know and I'll post it up when I've done it.
PS would you let me have your msq when you get it done?
 

AndyM

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Sven --

I don't use Megasquirt, but I do have a fully programmable ECU. Here are two timing tables I've been using. The first one is one I modified from a vette motor with aluminum heads. It is a little more conservative and is much smoother. It feels like it provides more torque too. This is what I'm running right now. You can probably bump up the upper values by a couple of points, but I would leave it as is and just work your fuel tables around it.

The second one is one I built up and ran for the past year. It is pretty raw and has great power and throttle response, but it is jerky at low/mid rpms. I think this table gives better power in the mid-range, but at the expense of driveability. I ran both with 91 octane and got no pinging.

Here's the first:

TimingTable1-1.jpg


Here's the second:

TimingTable2.jpg


Hope this helps.
 
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