How much steering play is okay in e9?

[taylorcom]

Back in the '50s-'60s, I recall hearing that if there's 6 inches of play in your car's steering (measured at the steering wheel), you should start worrying. Now when I Google that question, the answer is often "no more than 3 inches" is acceptable. I don't expect my '72 3.0CS to steer as tightly as my '97 318i, but how much steering play is normal/acceptable in the e9?

 

[teahead]

1/2"? You're referring to power steering, right? Not manual steering?

 

[Blinkling]

It's a good question but it becomes a more useful question with a few specifics worked out;

1. There's way more normal play when the wheels are turned a little bit. The steering box is built so that the tightest tolerances are experienced in the dead-ahead position.

2. If you can isolate the play in the steering into any of the components;
a. There shouldn't be much play at all in the tie rod balls, the the wheel bearings, the place where the steering box bolts to the subframe, anything under the car.....
b. There might be an inch or more of play in the steering box itself and that's probably ok. There is bound to be a little play always.
c. There might be a little play in the u-joints on the steering column or the telescoping part of the steering column and that's probably ok.

Here's a more direct answer: With the car off and the hydraulics not pumping I have gotten my steering wheel down to about 3/4" of play after considerable tinkering. That would probably measure as one inch of play (2.5cm) if I still had my big, original (400mm) steering wheel to measure on. And I'd be super interested if someone else claims they've done better!

 

[taylorcom]

1/2"? You're referring to power steering, right? Not manual steering?

Good point.

 

[taylorcom]

It's a good question but it becomes a more useful question with a few specifics worked out;

1. There's way more normal play when the wheels are turned a little bit. The steering box is built so that the tightest tolerances are experienced in the dead-ahead position.

2. If you can isolate the play in the steering into any of the components;
a. There shouldn't be much play at all in the tie rod balls, the the wheel bearings, the place where the steering box bolts to the subframe, anything under the car.....
b. There might be an inch or more of play in the steering box itself and that's probably ok. There is bound to be a little play always.
c. There might be a little play in the u-joints on the steering column or the telescoping part of the steering column and that's probably ok.

Here's a more direct answer: With the car off and the hydraulics not pumping I have gotten my steering wheel down to about 3/4" of play after considerable tinkering. That would probably measure as one inch of play (2.5cm) if I still had my big, original (400mm) steering wheel to measure on. And I'd be super interested if someone else claims they've done better!

In 1993 I did replace steerage linkage (see pic of the original parts) and the driveshaft center bearing.

 

[Christoph]

This made me curious. The hibernating E3 allows for about 10 mm movement in each direction before strong resistance occurs. On release the wheel springs back to centre position. Make it 12.5 mm instead of 10 mm and get 1" in total. Variables: E3, 1976, power steering, 400 mm standard four-spoke wheel, 195/70x14 tyres, engine off.

To my mind the play should not be larger than necessary to move the wheel from straight ahead to the parking lock, unsually slightly left of centre, in a non-violent way. Not more than 1" should do.

The repair manual, don't know if I got it right, describes a test for the power steering pump. When turning the steering wheel 3.5 mm in either direction the working pressure of the pump should be at 1 bar. The 3.5 mm are taken at the gap between steering wheel and upper steering column cover. I did a very very rough calculation, please don't do me for this, and got approx. 2.8-2.9° which would mean about 10 mm in either direction on the rim of the wheel. May that mean BMW hardly left any space for play?

I would not be surprised. At the time of the E3 & E9 cars were still designed for their home markets: motorways without speed limits (some left still) and winding country roads without speed controls (also). Going fast was perfectly acceptable, then. You need(ed) a tight steering response. With a lot of play you cannot give the car a direction, only suggest it. Some drivers may even find the hydraulics make the steering a little too soft, at least on higher speeds.

@Blinkling: Good idea to regard each part of the steering individually. Even better to mention the play with wheels turned as built in and non-disturbing. Summer seems long gone, I already cannot recall properly, but a half turn of the steering wheel might have resulted in about 3 cm or 1.2" of play. Not to be veri- or falsified before next spring.

 

[Blinkling]

Thank you @Christoph for mentioning the power steering pressure test. I believe the ~3º of steering wheel movement is the result of the action of the hydraulic valves opening inside the steering box assembly. But I've never compared the feel of the steering wheel with the car off and then immediately after with it idling. Theoretically the steering should feel even more firm in the center position with the hydraulics up to operating pressure.

Also, I hope spring comes early for your hibernating E3!

 

[Cornishman]

Blinking, I think it is about 1 foot in either direction with a traditional LandRover ,

 

[taylorcom]

Blinking, I think it is about 1 foot in either direction with a traditional LandRover ,

My family did have a traditional LandRover in the '60s-'70s, which we drove on the rough unpaved roads of Baja California many times and many miles. I don't remember the steering 'feeling' loose, but I'm sure you're correct. It was a solid machine, never the less. I'm sure steering technology has improved over the years, however.

 

[Blinkling]

Close enough for safari duty! I bet LandRovers of that vintage never saw 80 MPH!

 

[bavbob]

Try a early 80's Jeep CJ 7, a toboggan steers better.

 

[taylorcom]

Of course a great thing about the e9 is its excellent handling on curvy mountainous roads. I didn't notice that until months after I got the car and drove it on the winding 2-lane Highway 1 to Stinson Beach. The e9 took the road like an Alfa Romeo, much to my surprise.

 

[taylorcom]

After a drive just now, I conclude that my e9 has more than a few inches of play but steers and tracks smoothly. I notice no difference in steering play when car is running (and power steering engaged) vs. when car is not running.

 

[wilies13]

Dear all,
maybe it makes sense to share my experiencies. I Spent a lot of time in the topic.
- First (for sure) all steerage linking parts have to have zero play.
- Second I found some small play in the "Kreuzgelenk"

- Then I did several approaches with this famous screw at the steering gearbox:

In the original repair handbook there is a procedure described how to adjust under measuring the torque of the steering wheel.
The steerage linking is during the procedure disconnected. But the results did not satisfy me.

- Then I had luck and met an experienced guy of ZF.
He said, do not consider the torque.
He said: Find an optimum/compromise between play and needed torque while turning the steering wheel across the straight ahead position.

I did it and the overall result is ok.
There is remaining play and it's worse compared to my nowadays BMW. But it´s ok.

Good luck !
Willy

 

[roundel]

Dear all,
maybe it makes sense to share my experiencies. I Spent a lot of time in the topic.
- First (for sure) all steerage linking parts have to have zero play.
- Second I found some small play in the "Kreuzgelenk"

View attachment 131248
- Then I did several approaches with this famous screw at the steering gearbox:

View attachment 131250

In the original repair handbook there is a procedure described how to adjust under measuring the torque of the steering wheel.
The steerage linking is during the procedure disconnected. But the results did not satisfy me.

- Then I had luck and met an experienced guy of ZF.
He said, do not consider the torque.
He said: Find an optimum/compromise between play and needed torque while turning the steering wheel across the straight ahead position.

I did it and the overall result is ok.
There is remaining play and it's worse compared to my nowadays BMW. But it´s ok.

Good luck !
Willy

Back in the day when servicing these cars there was a new plastic protection cap for the centre steering link in the service kit. Thats because you were supposed to disconnect this from the steering box and use the torque meter on the steering wheel nut and set the torque to a set amount in the straight ahead position using the adjuster on the steering box.
This also told you if the steering wheel was aligned with the centre point of the box. Then the steering was locked in this position and the track checked to be sure the outer track rods were equal length, so when the wheel was straight the car ran straight. I would say 50% of the time this was not the case and had to be corrected. If the above does not work out it has been known for the drop arm on the box to have been fitted one spline out.

 

[taylorcom]

Thanks, all. I just lifted the car and took a close look at where the steering box assembly connects to the splines at the top of the Pitman arm that connects to the steering rack linkage. It looks like a bolt that should be there is missing, and there's considerable looseness at that connection when I manually turn the u-joint above the box.

The photos below show what appears to be an empty hole where a bolt should be. Can anyone tell me what the bolt is called, where to source it and any installation advice?

 

[wilies13]

uups...I´m a little bit confused where exactly ths is. Here is a picture from my own resto and the parts cataloque:

And for sure the connections have to be very fixed....all other is risk for life......

 

[wilies13]

@roundel: Great; what you write. The play is min and the friction is max when the steering box itself is in straigth ahead position.
Another ideas to find this postion would be: Middle between 2 lower friction points (could work from my feeling) or middle of the turns between lotal left and right (is this precise enough ?)

 

[3moons]

I don’t know but, could be #5 or #6 with #7.

BMW PARTS-CATALOG E9 2800CS - Steering - HYDRO STEERING-OIL CARRIER PARTS

BMW Teilekatalog, Online BMW Parts Catalog, Catálogo de piezas Online de BMW, Catalogue En ligne des pièces BMW, BMW Teile, Catalogo Online dei ricambi BMW, Он-лайн каталог запчастей BMW, オンラインBMWパーツカタログ, 온라인 BMW 부품 카달로그, Online BMW Onderdelen Catalogus, Catálogo Online de Peças BMW...

www.bmw-etk.info

- S

 

[taylorcom]

I don’t know but, could be #5 or #6 with #7.
View attachment 131388

BMW PARTS-CATALOG E9 2800CS - Steering - HYDRO STEERING-OIL CARRIER PARTS

BMW Teilekatalog, Online BMW Parts Catalog, Catálogo de piezas Online de BMW, Catalogue En ligne des pièces BMW, BMW Teile, Catalogo Online dei ricambi BMW, Он-лайн каталог запчастей BMW, オンラインBMWパーツカタログ, 온라인 BMW 부품 카달로그, Online BMW Onderdelen Catalogus, Catálogo Online de Peças BMW...

www.bmw-etk.info

- S