Engine Fire

foinsnap

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I went to start the car yesterday, and as usual after a few weeks of sitting, it won’t start on the first try. I usually give it 5 or ten minutes and It starts with no issues. This time it caught fire. The battery was connected and the ignition was off. I attached some pictures.

I was lucky, I was in the backyard next to the garage when I saw the smoke and had a fire extinguisher, or the fire would have probably taken the garage too.

I need to call insurance on Monday, hopefully I’m covered. I don’t think it’s a total loss but my agreed value is only 35k.

I not sure I can sort this out by myself. Fuel injection and electrical wiring are not my expertise, especially on a 50 year old care with many parts made of unobtainium.

This bad timing as I’ll be out of town for 2 weeks, and I’ll need to get thing done remotely.

I’m in north jersey, Bergen county. If anyone knows of a good mechanic please let me know.

Thanks …

Jeff
 

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mulberryworks

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Luck favors the prepared. It's hard to tell the extent of the damage, but you stopped it before it got much worse. Others will chime in, but it looks very repairable to me, albeit the time frame will be dependent on parts availability.
I wouldn't rush it off to a shop until you get confirmation of coverage from your insurance company. They may want to send out an adjuster and if you've started repairs, then the condition of the car will have been modified and they may decline payment or reduce the amount because they can't see the full extent of the damage or be able to determine the source of the fire. Been there, done that.
 

boonies

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I agree that it looks repairable. @mulberryworks is right, get your carrier involved to inspect and then work on the right shop for the repairs to your car. Another member of the forum was also looking for shops in the No. NJ area and that link may be of help.

 

sfdon

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You will want a new engine wiring harness. Not used. Used is 50 years old and brittle.

Somewhat difficult because cores are required by both AutoSpark and myself.
That said, I have cores available. It’s the conduit on the valve cover and the connectors that are needed. Think 3-4 months for AutoSpark and 8 weeks for me.

Your trigger points are likely ok which is really important, not so good for your TPS and injectors and MPS which will need to be replaced. Possibly you can media blast and powder coat your intake.
 

foinsnap

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Thanks for all your advice !

yes battery is disconnected !!
Hopefully insurance will come through

Just going to take it one step at a time
 

Arde

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Sorry to hear...
Do we know why this happened? Carb leak provided the fuel?
Ignition was off, so was there a short?
 

Antar

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Sorry to hear that, it's always something with these Fifty year old cars that we all love and want to keep on the road. I am glad your quick actions mitigated your damage and that your incident is fixable. As a new member to the forum, I would suggest you take the advice provided and take your time when doing the repairs.

Best of luck,

Antar Johnson
 

CSteve

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Assuming your insurance covers the fire damage I would get estimates from two shops with the best reputations on the East Coast. Who is your insurer, a classic company with experience with vintage cars, or a company like State Farm.? If it is a company like State Farm there is a remote possibility they may throw $35k at you and walk away.

If that happens, take their money and then try and buy your car back from them as a Salvage Title if it makes sense $$$ wise. You already know the rest of the car is okay. I don't know the ins and outs of retitling a salvage car in NJ or it can even be done. But based on my experience with my wrecked coupe many years ago I wish I could have bought it from the company, Chubb, and easily have gotten it back on the road.

If they repair, make sure the shops build into the estimate things that could happen down the road weeks or months after it is repaired. I was rear ended in my 1600 years ago and pushed gently into the car in front of me. My mechanic at the time said make sure they replace or pay you for a new water pump. It will go eventually. He was right and I had new pump sitting in the trunk compliments of the insurance company. But that was decades ago and we live in a different world.

Steve
 

Wobdog

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This is a good reminder that I should get a fire extinguisher for my car. What does the forum recommend?
 

tferrer

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Thanks for all your advice !

yes battery is disconnected !!
Hopefully insurance will come through

Just going to take it one step at a time
Well, the challenge will become trying to convince the insurance company of the rarity/cost of the items @sfdon mentiined. Finding a working MPS and TPS are hard enough. Finding them for sale is even more difficult. Best of luck..
 

Ohmess

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Some comments:

This is not a carburetor problem. The car has fuel injection.

This may be a failure of the short little fuel hoses connecting the injectors to the fuel rails. Because they are hidden below the intake runners, they are often neglected.

Consider Mario at VSR in NH for your work. He ain't cheap, but your car will be properly repaired when you get it back. Don't know for sure, but I suspect he could help with your insurance company.

As to extinguishers, I have a halon extinguisher. They will not damage your car, but can be dangerous because halon not only displaces oxygen in a fire, it can also displace the air in your lungs.
 

Wobdog

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Thanks for the advice. I was leaning toward Halon because it does less damage to you engine
 

foinsnap

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My insurance company is jcTaylor the claims adjuster has left me a message, we’ll see what they say.

I would definitely buy it back, I had this car for over 25 years. I aint getting rid of it.
 

Dan Wood

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As to extinguishers, I have a halon extinguisher. They will not damage your car, but can be dangerous because halon not only displaces oxygen in a fire, it can also displace the air in your lungs.
Halon are great but expensive and with issues as Chris mentioned. BC fire extinguishers can be used for cars for electricaal and liquid fires. ABC fire extinguishers are very corrosive to metals and I avoid having them around vehicles.
 

rsporsche

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Chris, thanks for the Element recommendation ... i knew i wanted to get something for the coupe, size and technology behind this is awesome.
 

mulberryworks

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Original Halon production was banned in 1994 because of ozone-depleting tendencies. There are still some available but there are newer alternatives. From Wikipedia:

Halons, Halon-replacement clean agents and carbon dioxide[edit]​

Clean agents extinguish fire by displacing oxygen (CO2 or inert gases), removing heat from the combustion zone (Halotron I, FE-36, Novec 1230) or inhibiting the chemical chain reaction (Halons, Halotron BrX). They are referred to as clean agents because they do not leave any residue after discharge, which is ideal for protecting sensitive electronics, aircraft, armored vehicles and archival storage, museums, and valuable documents.

  • Halon (including Halon 1211 and Halon 1301), are gaseous agents that inhibit the chemical reaction of the fire. Classes B:C for 1301 and smaller 1211 fire extinguishers (2.3 kg; under 9 lbs) and A:B:C for larger units (9–17 lb or 4.1–7.7 kg). Halon gases are banned from new production under the Montreal Protocol, as of January 1, 1994 as its properties contribute to ozone depletion and long atmospheric lifetime, usually 400 years. Halon may be recycled and used to fill newly manufactured cylinders, however, only Amerex continues to do this. The rest of the industry has moved to halon alternatives, nevertheless, halon 1211 is still vital to certain military and industrial users, so there is a need for it.
Halon was completely banned in Europe and Australia except for critical users like law enforcement and aviation, resulting in stockpiles either being destroyed via high heat incineration or being sent to the United States for reuse. Halon 1301 and 1211 are being replaced with new halocarbon agents which have no ozone depletion properties and low atmospheric lifetimes, but are less effective. Halon 2402 is a liquid agent (dibromotetrafluoroethane) which has had limited use in the West due to its higher toxicity than 1211 or 1301. It is widely used in Russia and parts of Asia, and it was used by Kidde's Italian branch, marketed under the name "Fluobrene".

  • Halocarbon replacements, HCFC Blend B (Halotron I, American Pacific Corporation), HFC-227ea (FM-200, Great Lakes Chemicals Corporation), and HFC-236fa (FE-36, DuPont), have been approved by the FAA for use in aircraft cabins in 2010.[27] Considerations for halon replacement include human toxicity when used in confined spaces, ozone depleting potential, and greenhouse warming potential. The three recommended agents meet minimum performance standards, but uptake has been slow because of disadvantages. Specifically, they require two to three times the concentration to extinguish a fire compared with Halon 1211.[28] They are heavier than halon, require a larger bottle because they are less effective, and have greenhouse gas potential.[29] Research continues to find better alternatives.
  • CO2, a clean gaseous agent which displaces oxygen. Highest rating for 20 lb (9.1 kg) portable CO2 extinguishers is 10B:C. Not intended for class A fires, as the high-pressure cloud of gas can scatter burning materials. CO2 is not suitable for use on fires containing their own oxygen source, metals or cooking media, and may cause frostbite and suffocation if used on human beings.
  • Novec 1230 fluid (AKA dry water, or Saffire fluid), a fluorinated ketone that works by removing massive amounts of heat. Available in fixed systems and wheeled units in the US and in portables in Australia. Unlike other clean agents, this one has the advantage of being a liquid at atmospheric pressure and can be discharged as a stream or a rapidly vaporizing mist, depending on application.
  • Potassium aerosol particle-generator, contains a form of solid potassium salts and other chemicals referred to as aerosol-forming compounds (AFC). The AFC is activated by an electric current or other thermodynamic exchange which causes the AFC to ignite. The majority of installed currently are fixed units due to the possibility of harm to the user from the heat generated by the AFC generator.
  • E-36 Cryotec, a type of high concentration, high-pressure wet chemical (potassium acetate and water), it is being used by the U.S. Military in applications like the Abrams tank to replace the aging halon 1301 units previously installed.
 
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