Coupe Prices

iconoclast6

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Guess I have to throw my .02 cents in.

As Andrew has suggested, yes Chris, I can't imagine your Malaga not being a #1. And no, your performance upgrade can't possibly make its worth...less.

Based on what I've seen and know, Paul Cain's 3.5, Duane Sword's Alpina tribute, the '74 Don Davis' sale at RM Auctions, HB Chris’s Malaga and others, easily illustrate the conundrum many of us face. Even a tidy sale price of $100k could still be less than the sum we have in the car.

For the most part, I have to agree with Mario's thought:

"a car is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it! If it is not for sale, it is priceless to it's owner."

I hasten to add that I love my Agave, but I've often said that while "I came with the one I love, I could easily leave with someone else's girlfriend". I've been fortunate to see fantastic drool worthy e9's from Mario's VSR1, Peter's CoupeKing Shop, and Don Detlefson's The WerkShop and other lesser known craftsmen. Bottom line: great work takes time, resources and expertise. That being said, everyone has somewhat differing philosophies on how to apply their expertise.

As such, I have yet to see an owner with a newly restored car, not want to tinker with some aspect of performance or a cosmetic element. That such changes could further enhance or diminish the value, becomes part of the public and personal narrative of relative worth beyond the cost of restoration.

I've had my car take best of show at Limerock, judged by Wayne Carini if that means anything, among an amazing group of e9's, Ferrari's, etc.. But on the other hand, be passed over by judges at other shows who deemed my e9 inappropriately modified. I'm sure many of us have had similar experiences. I'm convinced that another core part of the value of our e9's, as Mario alludes to, is only partially related to the price paid for, it or how it's judged.

IMHO, a significant aspect if one were to consider selling their e9, is the character and intention of the potential buyer.

I was recently at Charlemagne Motorsports getting my e9 ready for its winter storage sleep, and a fellow made a comment-question about my car, or similar e9's being worth from $75 to $90K. I offered no response. A couple hours later, it turns out that I'd need a ride back to NYC via Metro North, and the same fellow offered me ride if we could make a quick stop. The stop we made was to his compound that housed nearly 20-25 classic BMW's. Apparently, the fellow is warehousing cars that he buys and sells. There is nothing wrong with that. But, unless I absolutely need the $$, I'd prefer to sell my car to someone who would prize and drive the car, rather than to a someone who would hold it to then flip it.
That would be the value, beyond price, that would be satisfying

Nuff said...

Chuck
 
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adawil2002

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so who thinks they really have an original car - never been painted, wrecked, rusted, with original interior - seats and wood ... in great shape?

Believe we agree that does not exist, they are like Unicorns, mythical, I think Peter Coomaraswamy bought the closest thing to an original survivor untouched 2800CS from Mario Langston.
 

HB Chris

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A true Condition 1 is trailered and never or seldom driven. Mine is a Condition 2, it has minor flaws which is fine, I drive on average 4K miles a year. It hasn't been driven since June and it's killing me! Two more weeks, keeping my fingers crossed. I think I have a mental block on putting the heater back in. :lol:
 

Bez

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Or maybe some version of this which I posted in May? Ignore the prices

Solid chassis needing only paint and interior $30K

Restored car with older repaint, decent interior $35K

Restored car with recent paint and interior, VG condition $45K and up

Restored car with excellent paint and interior, engine upgrades, needs nothing, $60K and up

Concours coupe $80K and up!

Chris

I just spent close to 25k on a complete rust remediation at VSR earlier this year (and that was with only partial repaint and I did all the labor in removing interior parts). My coupe still needs wood refinish and leather so it falls inbetwixt the 30/35k categories u mentioned back in May.

But Hagerty currently values a condition 2 at $33.9k ($39k with sunroof)!

I don't believe these values reflect the current market valuation (and most certainly the value of your coupe).

Your thoughts?
 

Ohmess

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Bez - when I insured my coupe earlier this year, I told Hagerty's their valuations were too low and pointed them to my purchase thread, which included the original version of the data Chris posted earlier in this thread.

One additional comment on modifying BMWs: my first BMW had a series of design compromises that lead me to start modifying my car. The clutch delay valve allowed a reduction in hydraulic pressure to protect against driveline warranty expenses and made it impossible to properly shift gears; the extra three inches of strofoam on the lower dash of the US e39s, provided to protect overweight americans not wearing seatbelts from submarining under the dash, was really ugly; a real limited slip differential is a vast improvement over the wimpy electronic compromise BMW provided; the european aspheric mirrors are far superior to those mandated by the US DOT, the Mercedes bi-xenons are much brighter in the country than the stock BMW lights; my HRE/Michelin Super Sports combination is far superior to anything BMW offered and on and on and on. Hell, BMW even recommended different tire pressures for e39s in the US (4ibs higher in the rear) to cut down on the risk that we stupid americans would, having become too lazy to check our tire pressures, let our rear wheel tire pressures decrease, experience oversteer, lack the ability the respond to a little oversteer, crash our powerful rear wheel drive cars and sue BMW for making cars that crash too much.

Maybe selling a diverse lineup of vehicles to an ever expanding variety of customers requires design compromises that tilt away from car nuts. Nonetheless, these things diminished my reverence for pure BMW design.
 

Peter Coomaraswamy

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I think the reason our coupes were not properly taken car of, is that the population was under the mistaken notion that newer cars would keep getting better and better.:?
 

rsporsche

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Wives like heaters!
Chris,

have an electric heater element put under the seatcover and leave the heater off. i rarely turn the heat on in my porsche ... but the seat heaters go on quick in the winter. in the summer, the seat a/c also gets turned on.
 

Stan

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Thoughts on a 507

I need to disagree a bit. There are many vintage BMW events that are anywhere from 4 hours to 5 days drive. I for one feel much more comfortable driving from NH to NC (or CA for that matter) with a bit more reliability. The coupes seem like a car that most owners like to "upgrade". Now if I had a 507.... another story entirely

Oh, make no mistake, I would drive it but would not change the engine, wheel size, or color from original.
 

NewSixCoupe

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to me excellent original is probably unachievable in this model. its one thing to have matching numbers original ... its quite another to have original paint and interior ... that looks concours good.

with the specter of rust in these cars - inside and out, and the leaking potential of the windows / windshields and rubber gaskets, compounded by the large greenhouse ... the wood on our cars takes a real beating as does the leather interior.

so who thinks they really have an original car - never been painted, wrecked, rusted, with original interior - seats and wood ... in great shape?

I bought my coupe in '05 because at the time it was as original as I could find (big bumpers and all). The interior is 100% original—seats, headliner, sunroof deflector, carpet, wood, etc.—in excellent condition with a well-cared-for patina that I've maintained religiously. The exterior has had a belt line up repaint to remedy the BMW clear coat issue common to many metallic paint cars. Webers are on the car now, but in the not too distant future the original Zeniths will be rebuilt and reinstalled. Also planning to removing the Bilsteins next Spring in favor of the factory suspension. At that point I'll come to the crux of my ownership, whether to move forward with a bumper conversion. I've had many worthwhile chats about this with members on this board, as well as the previous owner of my car and the original owner. Haven't made a decision yet, but in the current atmosphere the overwhelming POV seems to favor the conversion. We'll see...
 

Peter Coomaraswamy

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Hi Len, a question and a comment, Please post which shocks you are going to use and if you find a source of "original springs". Regarding the bumpers, I don't think you can go wrong with the '72 style as long as you keep the big ones in the basement. You really don't have to drill any holes, except the 4 in the back where there are already "markings" for them. You can make little adaptors for where the bumpers attach to the sides if the holes don't line up perfectly. I used flush fitting rubber plugs to cover up any extra holes left by the larger bumper bellows.
 

adawil2002

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NewSixCoupe

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Hi Len, a question and a comment, Please post which shocks you are going to use and if you find a source of "original springs". Regarding the bumpers, I don't think you can go wrong with the '72 style as long as you keep the big ones in the basement. You really don't have to drill any holes, except the 4 in the back where there are already "markings" for them. You can make little adaptors for where the bumpers attach to the sides if the holes don't line up perfectly. I used flush fitting rubber plugs to cover up any extra holes left by the larger bumper bellows.

Peter, was planning on reusing the original shocks that luckily came with the car (assuming they're still good) or just ordering a set from BMW. Last time I was under the car with my mechanic we decided the springs looked good all around. I've done some research to fully understand what a conversion entails re: bodywork and/or paint. I know that the rear bumper sides need holes drilled for proper attachment, but I'm not clear on the front. Would I have to modify the existing lower valence or could I just swap it our for a '72, which I assume would have the correct slots for the mounting hardware? I've also been advised to shave the reflectors, but that ratchets the entire conversion up a notch...
 
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