Car won't start

[Bwana]

It was running when it stopped....:lol:

A 1972 CSi from Italy, unknown mileage. Petronix electronic ignition. All new hoses under the hood. Had the D-Jet gone thru by a guy that knows the system, had the TBS replaced. The FI work was done many hundreds of trouble free miles ago.

Home for lunch today then off to the Shell station for a fillup. 17MPG because of lots of freeway driving. Stopped at Lowes on the way back to work. No isssues of any sort stopping at the gas station or at Lowes. Parked in the garage at work.

I came out 4 hours later to go home. It started, stumbled, and stalled twice. This is not unusual in the morning when it's cold but usually doesn't happen when semi warm. Now all it does is crank (seems faster than usual?). Seems like the battery is fine. I poked around but didn't find any loose wires.

So tomorrow I'm planning on a couple of quick checks before it's off to the shop:

1) pull a plug wire, stick in a spare plug, and see if I have any spark. If so

2) disconnect the downstream side of the fuel filter to see if it's clogged. I would be astonished if it plugged up at exactly the same time I pulled into the parking space but you never know.

3) poke around for loose wires

Any other suggestions? I figure the simplist things to check first.


(BTW, this is really making me crazy, today of all days! Got my special delivery toolbox screw set from deQ plus the metric machine screws to finish my wiper rebuild. And the car is at work.....sigh)

 

[calshamus]

You got it right from a troubleshooting perspective...you need spark and fuel. Figure out which one you don't have and go from there.

 

[Arde]

3.0 CS ONE - 3.0CSi ZERO at halftime.

Anyway, going by what I would check on the E24 does the electric fuel pump hum?
Relay/fuse for fuel pump? How about the AFM?

 

[JFENG]

I've had two Pertronix fail on me.

And 3 that have run perfectly for years.
But, if it's bad you'll not get any spark from the HT lead coming out of the coil.

 

[Stan]

Fuse block

On my car the whole fuse block got loose over time and the car would not start.
Once tightened back up all was fine

 

[afeustel]

You actually need 3 things for it to run: spark, fuel, and compression. Hopefully a lack of compression is not causing your sensed faster than usual spinning.

Good luck.

 

[Bwana]

You got it right from a troubleshooting perspective...you need spark and fuel. Figure out which one you don't have and go from there.

Good to see I haven't lost my touch! I was a field engineer for Big Oil for 15-20 years, assigned to figure out why your 35,000HP turbine wasn't working right. Put me in your Rolodex if you have trouble with your big HP gas turbines in the future :-D

3.0 CS ONE - 3.0CSi ZERO at halftime.

Anyway, going by what I would check on the E24 does the electric fuel pump hum?
Relay/fuse for fuel pump? How about the AFM?

Hey hey hey! Lets not get this started! :-D I like the technical uniqueness of the D-Jet. Analog is OK in my mechanical engineer's book. A lot easier than those "bit" and "byte" thingies

Excellent suggestion though. Will listen for it tomorrow. Where's the fuel pump anyway? Is it a sucker (under hood) or a pumper (in tank)?

But, if it's bad you'll not get any spark from the HT lead coming out of the coil.

Exactly my thoughts

You actually need 3 things for it to run: spark, fuel, and compression. Hopefully a lack of compression is not causing your sensed faster than usual spinning.

Good luck.

You are exactly right! The "compression" thought crossed my mind while I sat there with the engine spinning. However, what could fail that I'd loose all compression? Cam chain? Never heard of that!

 

[adawil2002]

Check/replace fuses, the ends can wear through they still look good.

Try replacing the Pertronix with points and condenser. Pertronix modules can and do fail. ;-) I installed a Pertonix that caused a myriad of stalling issues.

Check grounds at battery, engine block, near the passenger side turn signal and at the fuel pump relay above the ECU under the rear passenger seat. If the fuel pump has a loose ground, the car won't start. Check the White 62 wire connection at the coil/ballast resistor, that's where the fuel pump gets power.

Have the fuel screens in the tank and at the pump been cleaned/replaced.

 

[siscobmw]

I came out 4 hours later to go home. It started, stumbled, and stalled twice. sigh

sound like a fuel pump issue(my 2 cents).....it goes and makes pressure when you turn the ignition key, after you leave the key the pump stops working and the angone has no more fuel pressure.

the same happened to my ex euro 635 years ago: bad bad pump relais.can' t remember now where the pump relais is on the e9, but try to swap it for something newer.....

Francesco

 

[sfdon]

a car that is parked and then refuses to run is often the fuel pump. The electric motor is seizing. That said checking for spark is easiest and should be done first so that the fuel pump is testing itself for you.

You should bring a plastic milk jug, a screwdriver, a sparkplug, a voltmeter, a spare
sparkplug /coil wire, some spare fuses and a fused jumper wire with you. Don't forget the battery pack for jump starting the car.

You already know how to check for spark at the coil- use the plug wire you brought and the plug you brought stuck into the coil and laid across the valve cover. Make sure you crank the engine several times for 5 seconds or so- that will identify intermittent spark problems and prep the fuel pump for its test.

If you have spark- remove the fuel line at the front of the fuel rail and stick in the jug. If you have been cranking the engine to test for spark you should have 30+ psi of fuel pressure built up in that line by now. If fuel doesn't squirt all over when you remove the hose- you might have found your problem.
Every time you turn the key on you will hear a relay click in the back seat and gas should come flowing out of the fuel hose for a second.

Let us know what you find.


http://www.ifitjams.com/starting.htm

 

[Bwana]

Fuel Pump

Yep, just checked it. Disconnected the hose from the injector rail and had my buddy turn the key while I held the hose in a jar. No fuel. I can hear and feel the relay pick up next to the ECU. And I don't hear the faint whine of the pump anymore.

So where is the pump? Is it under the car, attached to the frame rail? I can get a new BMW pump for $300. I've read a bunch of threads this morning about after market pumps but I think I'll stick with BMW.

What say ye?

 

[adawil2002]

Yep, just checked it. Disconnected the hose from the injector rail and had my buddy turn the key while I held the hose in a jar. No fuel. I can hear and feel the relay pick up next to the ECU. And I don't hear the faint whine of the pump anymore.

So where is the pump? Is it under the car, attached to the frame rail? I can get a new BMW pump for $300. I've read a bunch of threads this morning about after market pumps but I think I'll stick with BMW.

What say ye?

The fuel pump is under the car above the rear subframe towards the driver side, forward of the spare tire well.

Can replace it with an E28 fuel pump, it's less expensive. Will have to make jumper wires since the plugs are different. As I recall, the inlet is on the other side from the CS pump.

 

[Bwana]

One last question (yea, right). I'm going to pull the pump tonight and bench check it. Is there anything else obvious, other than dirt/rust, that might be keeping it from running?

 

[sfdon]

There is a circular press in screen filter at the bottom of the fuel pickup in the tank.
Normally they are in tatters by now from old age.
If yours is shot and the tank is full of scheise - your pump may simply be full of crud and unable to spin. Inspect the screen to see what has been going on. Order a new screen, a new gasket/seal and back flush the pump to see what comes out.
Make it a point to inspect/replace fuel line and hose clamps where needed!

 

[adawil2002]

One last question (yea, right). I'm going to pull the pump tonight and bench check it. Is there anything else obvious, other than dirt/rust, that might be keeping it from running?

There should be a conical brass screen on the inlet side, it may be clogged with rust and crud. I've never had luck removing the screen, so I clean it in the pump. Also check the fine screen on the bottom of the tank pickup mentioned in an earlier post, it can get clogged with rust and crud too and is easy to replace, about $17 from Maximillian or BMW.