'74 3.0cs for sale in atlanta

[rsporsche]

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/bmw/3.0cs/1606064.html

guys, this is for sale in atlanta - (this is not mine / no affiliation) i looked at this car today. its an extremely original coupe. numbers matching engine with relatively low mileage. does not appear to have ever been wrecked. i looked very closely and only found 1 small area of rust - upper / top left of the trunk behind the drivers rear wheel. the car has a sunroof - the headliner doesn't fit great on the sunroof. it was raining in atlanta this morning, so i did NOT drive it. the seller has been a good caretaker of this car since 2008.

it was originally an automatic, but previous owner converted it to a stick - something about the clutch pedal doesn't seem quite right. the hole in the dash for the tranny position indicator just has a plate over it.

the bumpers have been changed, but the holes have not been filled. the bumpers are missing the rubber ends. there are speakers cut into the door panels (2 per panel - separate tweeters).

when the car was repainted, the belt trim was not removed - there is a little trauma at this juncture in a couple of locations. the rear belt trims are not perfect. overall the paint is quite good - with the exceptions created by the belt trim and the bumper conversion. there is one decent door ding.

bottom line, this is a very solid + original car. is it worth the money? good question. i will tell you that overall it is in much better shape than i have seen in a while. would i sell mine to buy it ... probably not, i have an equally nice coupe. if it was an original stick coupe, probably so. that's just me - i would like to have a coupe that was this original w/ numbers matching / original stick vin ... and in this good of shape.

i took some detail pics that i would be happy to share with anybody that wants more info. i would be happy to answer questions to an interested party.

cheers
scott

 

[rsporsche]

a few pics of the 74 in atlanta

guys -

here are the worst pics of the car - the belt trim at the doors (both) and the only significant rust i found on the car (small piece within the rear fender well). along with the best looking rear side of the firewall i've seen on an unrestored car. and very clean fender wells (rust wise).

if the owner fixed these minor issues, might be worth the money.

 

[rsporsche]

a few more pics of a few small things that could have been done a little better.
as i've said, if this was priced a little better or with a little bit of work, it could be a great car - it is an excellent original car as is. it is a car worth considering.

 

[bert35csi]

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Wow! The paint work is scary looking. Looks like the paint will peel off in one piece. Appears to be a single stage paint failure and not the clear coat that is flaking off. Think he will get half what he is asking.

The 74 tool box is amazing though. Still holding up and looking new almost 40 years later. that's a lot more than what you can say about the earlier clam shell boxes.

 

[rsporsche]

Bert,

that's the worst 2 inches of paint on the entire car. it could be repaired easily. this is the best unrestored original car i have seen (overall)- period. perhaps there are some in california that are just as well preserved - but precious few.

scott

 

[bert35csi]

Well Scott, I respect your judgement. I stand corrected. Hope he gets his asking price. Thanks!

 

[rsporsche]

Bert, that's why i wrote that those first 2 images were the worst pics of the car. both are areas less than 2 square inches. believe me, i crawled underneath it ... i looked everywhere i could. when i first saw the ad, i went to look at it for me. it has several things my coupe does not - an original engine and a sunroof. i learned that it was an auto conversion - so is my 2800cs. if this car had been a stick vin we wouldn't be having this conversation ... we'd be talking about my black '71.

 

[phead82]

I would like to see the rockers on that car with the panels pulled. Cause the rear side of my firewall looks the same - and mine's an unrestored (California) car too, but has seen a horrible repaint (chamonix to black) unfortunately.
I pulled the rocker panels this weekend and found - rust. Exactly in the rear area where the water drain ends into, bottom of the fenders. Stupid engineering back in the days - what were they thinking? I believe ALL unrestored coupes are rusty, it's just a question of how much - well, maybe unless they have been stored in a dry garage for the last 40 years of and only been driven in sunshine
Anyway - I'm digging in there over the next couple of weeks and am ordering new rockers and quarter panels (sections) today - fun times ahead!

 

[tmason]

If you are in the market for one in this price range(30's and up),look at the one here in Reno 1st.Pay a professional to look it over and I think you will find it to be a steal! Owner is Brian 775-815-3266 and I'm just posting here to let someone have a chance before he ebay it (I have no affiliation with the car).

 

[rsporsche]

I would like to see the rockers on that car with the panels pulled. Cause the rear side of my firewall looks the same - and mine's an unrestored (California) car too, but has seen a horrible repaint (chamonix to black) unfortunately.
I pulled the rocker panels this weekend and found - rust. Exactly in the rear area where the water drain ends into, bottom of the fenders. Stupid engineering back in the days - what were they thinking? I believe ALL unrestored coupes are rusty, it's just a question of how much - well, maybe unless they have been stored in a dry garage for the last 40 years of and only been driven in sunshine
Anyway - I'm digging in there over the next couple of weeks and am ordering new rockers and quarter panels (sections) today - fun times ahead!

phead -

question for you - do each of your fender wells (front and back) look pristine? - with the exception of one 2" fold corner in the rear. the front and rear of the these rockers look perfect, as does the underside. the floors look perfect, as do the frame rails. yes, these cars rust from the inside out. that's why you look at the back of the firewall on both sides. you look at the fender welds, etc, etc.

i did not see the car on a lift. but i did look at the underside from lying on the ground with lights (all around) - stuck my head into the wheel wells - stuck the camera into places i couldn't see. i'm not perfect or an expert ... but i have a good eye ... the lines + fit of this car is true. its worth a serious professional look and consideration.

i think the current owner mentioned that this car lived a lot of its life in new mexico.

 

[JFENG]

Clean looking car

guys -
here are the worst pics of the car -if the owner fixed these minor issues, might be worth the money.

That looks like a great starting point! The pulled paint is minor and I agree it could be touched up with an invisible localized repair. Did you feel up in the front fender pockets to see if they were smooth inside?

 

[phead82]

Scott,

I am not questioning your ability to judge the condition of this coupe, or any coupe for that matter - not at all. This might very well be a very nice, original, mostly rust free car. And it probably is.
When I bought my coupe this June I thought it was mostly rust free. It had seen a very poor repaint 7 years ago (also with the belt trim in place, no windows out job), but the paint showed nice enough to be good driver quality. It had seen a bad rust repair on the driver side floor pan at some point which was easy to spot, but other than that, there were no signs of rust in the usual areas.
After purchase I removed the sound deadening on the shock towers in the engine compartment and found only surface rust there - *whew* big relief!
But like said, when I pulled the rocker panels - and I was probably the first person to do that in 40 years - I eventually discovered rust holes. Almost inevitable it seems since that seems to be - among others - one of the weak points of these cars due to the way they were built?

But coming back to your question, the wheel wells of my coupe look nice and original. But no - I wouldn't call them pristine though.

The silver CS you were looking at looks very nice though, and I like the fact that it still has its original upholstery which seems to be in very good condition too.

Do nice examples like this one really go close to 40K now?

So no offense here - I come in peace

Patrick

 

[rsporsche]

That looks like a great starting point! The pulled paint is minor and I agree it could be touched up with an invisible localized repair. Did you feel up in the front fender pockets to see if they were smooth inside?

i did reach up on one side and didn't get a hand full of junk or come back with a rusty hand.

 

[rsporsche]

Scott,

I am not questioning your ability to judge the condition of this coupe, or any coupe for that matter - not at all. This might very well be a very nice, original, mostly rust free car. And it probably is.
When I bought my coupe this June I thought it was mostly rust free. It had seen a very poor repaint 7 years ago (also with the belt trim in place, no windows out job), but the paint showed nice enough to be good driver quality. It had seen a bad rust repair on the driver side floor pan at some point which was easy to spot, but other than that, there were no signs of rust in the usual areas.
After purchase I removed the sound deadening on the shock towers in the engine compartment and found only surface rust there - *whew* big relief!
But like said, when I pulled the rocker panels - and I was probably the first person to do that in 40 years - I eventually discovered rust holes. Almost inevitable it seems since that seems to be - among others - one of the weak points of these cars due to the way they were built?

But coming back to your question, the wheel wells of my coupe look nice and original. But no - I wouldn't call them pristine though.

The silver CS you were looking at looks very nice though, and I like the fact that it still has its original upholstery which seems to be in very good condition too.

Do nice examples like this one really go close to 40K now?

So no offense here - I come in peace

Patrick

no worries Patrick. in my humble opinion, when you don't find any trauma on the floor pans, firewall, inner fenders (anywhere), outer fenders (at A pillar), bottom of the doors, both rocker ends and underside, rear fender wells and all shock towers, and the underside of the front and rear windshields ... the chances for rust are still there, but terminal rust is minimal ... and with no visible rust repairs or ripples in the undercoating - it looks promising. i, like you, am not comforted that the sunroof drains into the rockers ... something i would change with a sunroof car. your caution is a true concern - one of the easiest ways to better understand the integrity of the rocker is to put the factory jack under it and jack the car. i probably wouldn't do that on my own car - short of that, you should look closely for rust dust where the car would excrete it on the under side of the rocker cover. a more thorough / professional exam might include removal of the cover.

bottom line - i could be wrong. don't think i am here ... but the possibility exists.

to answer your question concerning the value of a coupe ... the value depends on what YOU are willing to pay for what are often unobtainable conditions. if you take a somewhat rusty coupe for 15k ... and spend 20+k for rust remediation and painting ... you have a repaired 35+k car. which would you rather have? an original great survivor ... or a repaired car for the same price?

 

[phead82]

Well - you're making it really difficult there for me...

Of course I'd go for an unrestored, pristine survivor - any day! I guess almost anybody would.

But like you say it's not always what we want... but rather what we can get for what we are willing to pay.
Heck - I'd pay 35k+ for an unrestored, solid (no rust issues) car if there was one out there!
Cause ultimately - and your math is pretty spot on there - this is what my somewhat rusty coupe will at least cost me. And it will be far from finished and original - lots of little issues to solve, looong journey ahead then still...

But I'm in good spirits. I got the coupe, now all there's left to do is to make the best of it and make it mine!

It's also the process and the struggle and finally the light at the end of the tunnel which get's us so attached to our particular car.
I think once you start digging in there, getting your hands dirty you wouldn't even want to trade it anymore for a supposedly nicer coupe. Cause after all it became yours - you made it yours.

Kinda philosophical, but I guess you get the point

 

[JFENG]

Rocker rust inspection

On an earlier car with multi-piece carpets you should be able to see into the "inside" of the inner rockers. You have to lift up the narrow carpets pieces on the door sills. A bore scope makes it easier. That doesn't guaranty there isn't surface rust in the outer two rockers, but at least you'll see rust thru.

I'd assume all unrestored SR coupe have a some rust in the rockers. If its not serious, one can reroute the drains and shoot cavity wax in the rockers to halt any further damage.

 

[JFENG]

I'd argue the opposite

A well restored coupe that has been de-rusted properly is a car that will not rust in the future and can now be driven in the rain without any fear of rust coming back. An original unrusty coupe is a car that will get rusty unless kept in a dehumidifies vault any practically never driven.

John

 

[phead82]

Hehe - this is turning into a restoration/rust remediation thread.
I agree with everything you say concerning a de-rusted coupe giving you peace of mind in future rain drives, John.
Yet as a starting point I'd still go for an original one and take it from there (proper rust prevention and all), no?

Concerning rerouting the drains: Do you know if this can be done without having to entirely remove the quarter panels?

I apologize for the off-topic questions - after all there is still a car to be had/sold here.

Patrick

 

[Stevehose]

Access to the c-pillar drain (not sure about sun roof but probably) can be had by removing the rear window panels and the mechanisms. I rerouted mine through the wheel arch. There are threads with pics on this.

Concerning rerouting the drains: Do you know if this can be done without having to entirely remove the quarter panels?

I apologize for the off-topic questions - after all there is still a car to be had/sold here.

Patrick

 

[JFENG]

My point is

Pat,
My point is, there's no really proper way to rust proof a coupe without replacing the original paint/primer/sealers with modern materials. Therefore, I consider starting with a rust free coupe and injecting rust proofing to be substantially inferior to pulling off the front end sheet metal and rockers, stripping to bare metal, priming with modern 2-part self-etching primers, and applying modern top coats and sealers. Maybe the rockers don't have to come off, but I agree with our local Guru (Mario L) that if one wants to drive the thing and never fear having to go thru another restoration 10 years down the road ... bit the bullet: pull off the outer fenders/intermediate fenders, and redo everything up inside those areas.

My coupe is substatially cleaner looking that the one you're looking at. I just pulled off some of the undercoating at the forward/lower area of the rear wheel well. This area gets directly blasted with road grime and water. The original primer underneat the stone chip was in perfect condition. Yet .... I'm going to do it Mario's way and disassemble the entire front end when I get it repainted. Plus, I'm going to remove as much of the undercoating/stone chip as possible because that stuff just holds moisture against the old underbody paint (which is not very good at resisting moisture).

Original paint work is vastly inferior to redone in every way ... in the case of E9's

John