Carb model from Italy
6200 RPM redline for the carb model?
6200 RPM redline for the carb model?
1971 CSL on Hemmings
- Thread starter Drew Gregg
- Start date
giannicsl
Well-Known Member
Bad bad bad bad
Bad restored!
WRONG
Bad restored!
WRONG
With all respect these are the type of comments that really irritate people and add zero value to this forum.
I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about, but without providing any examples or evidence to support your statements it just looks like rock throwing.
Are you able to step us through your concerns with this car?
2800CS tach
@Wes - . This is peculiar to the CSL world though. Where Porsche owners hash out the smallest details, you just see comments bashing a certain car with zero edification on what is the proper and correct feature/detail. Beside the incorrect steering wheel, and boot emblem (no CSL on early cars) and the aforementioned tach, I don't see that much that looks incorrect.
Granted I didn't look that closely but on the surface I've seen much worse...
Granted I didn't look that closely but on the surface I've seen much worse...
Four slat kidney, modern blade holders, passenger side e3 wiper arm?, flag mirror, vin plate with Phillips head screws, chromed valve cover?, hood gaps. Pics are too dark to tell actually.
I think this car has been discussed here before.
giannicsl
Well-Known Member
Hi, Wes,
of this restored csl in this forum has been written about everything.
Reason why
I only wrote many times bad bad restoration.
WRONG.
I didn’t mean to stone this car
but I’ve been writing about the many defects of this machine for at least 2 years.
Some irreversible for lack of original materials...
Other errors in the restoration can be cured, it will necessarily be necessary to strip the machine and bring back to origin the black lines of the sills that do not absolutely match the lines prepared of the arches typical csl.
Who has csl or is interested like me in the csl world for over 25 years ....
He perceives more or less gross errors in the restorations...
I’m sorry!
But all I like about this car is the vin#
It’s not a car worth the asking price.
Removing a zero and disassembling everything you can reason to bring it back, as it deserves, to its splendor.
Let me make one thing clear.
I have always written that who has restored this car has never opened a book on csl...especially 169 series.
Nothing is imputed to the Italian dealer who sells this car.
I’m sure they mean well.
But this car I repeat is all to be redone.
In the world of collecting the original detail is the difference and that difference you pay.
No stone and no controversy ...
Just my small contribution for those who have 365000 euros to spend.
of this restored csl in this forum has been written about everything.
Reason why
I only wrote many times bad bad restoration.
WRONG.
I didn’t mean to stone this car
but I’ve been writing about the many defects of this machine for at least 2 years.
Some irreversible for lack of original materials...
Other errors in the restoration can be cured, it will necessarily be necessary to strip the machine and bring back to origin the black lines of the sills that do not absolutely match the lines prepared of the arches typical csl.
Who has csl or is interested like me in the csl world for over 25 years ....
He perceives more or less gross errors in the restorations...
I’m sorry!
But all I like about this car is the vin#
It’s not a car worth the asking price.
Removing a zero and disassembling everything you can reason to bring it back, as it deserves, to its splendor.
Let me make one thing clear.
I have always written that who has restored this car has never opened a book on csl...especially 169 series.
Nothing is imputed to the Italian dealer who sells this car.
I’m sure they mean well.
But this car I repeat is all to be redone.
In the world of collecting the original detail is the difference and that difference you pay.
No stone and no controversy ...
Just my small contribution for those who have 365000 euros to spend.
Can you walk us through your thoughts on why the car needs to be stripped and start again? That seems a little excessive to me. I see plenty of niggling things that I'd like to see put right but wouldn't of thought that you'd need to pull the whole car apart.
I value the small details and want to increase my knowledge (as I'm sure others do).
giannicsl
Well-Known Member
It seems obvious that in my opinion this car in the past has suffered an accident...small or large I can not say.
But it is obvious that he has a second-series injection snout.
Never the carburetors have had the pelmet with small windows side...
It is evident that the part of antirombo has been misaligned ...in fact the crimped arches do not completely cover and do not match...
The light or light preparation preview the color of the body shop in the wheel arches...other black parts on reservoir .... wheel compartment color to color upholstery...
On this model I do not see perspex
I don’t see gliders chest or mudguards to color silver....
Black only on second series.
I don’t want to go on, but I think it’s good
Everything else has to be evaluated very carefully.
If you take back the paint mistakes on what I wrote you will have more or less a machine to redo all.
But it is obvious that he has a second-series injection snout.
Never the carburetors have had the pelmet with small windows side...
It is evident that the part of antirombo has been misaligned ...in fact the crimped arches do not completely cover and do not match...
The light or light preparation preview the color of the body shop in the wheel arches...other black parts on reservoir .... wheel compartment color to color upholstery...
On this model I do not see perspex
I don’t see gliders chest or mudguards to color silver....
Black only on second series.
I don’t want to go on, but I think it’s good
Everything else has to be evaluated very carefully.
If you take back the paint mistakes on what I wrote you will have more or less a machine to redo all.
I don't want to pick the car apart but keen to learn more on carb CSLs.
Other than the slots for the bumper mounts how does the nose vary for injected cars? Is it to do with the number of slits on the top?
Not sure what you mean on the carbs - what do you mean by pelmet windows?
Not sure I understand your comments on wheel arches colour.
Chris pointed out things that are primarily easy fixes (with the exception of finding the correct 5 bar grill). The chin spoiler with the smaller outer slots can be a replacement chin spoiler, doesn't mean the entire nose. They rust. Not sure about the "pelmet and small window sides". The pictures are waay underlit and the detail shots focus on innocuous areas, nothing really important. The stainless flairs might be the larger aftermarket ones. The wheel isn't a CSL petri and this car wouldn't have had one anyway (CSL Alpina) and the shift nob is incorrect also (2-piece laminated knob is correct). I don't know enough about carb csl's to say they ALL had Perspex rear and side windows. I'll let someone like @Keshav or @BMW Pete chime in on that if they wish. At the end of the day, its my opinion (and only that) that 95% of all CSL's have had to have some level of restoration due to rust and will always have some level of metal replacement. With BMW's reluctance to remake accurate panels for these special cars it becomes very difficult to restore them to as they "left the factory" and to expect that level of accuracy is a fools game. I would venture a guess, very few multi-million dollar 50-60's Ferraris are as they left the factory floor, and you could say the same for other highly collectible cars. And those cars were always many times the value of CSL's in the past. Yes this car has issues and I think it makes for an interesting example to hash out what those may be so any and all future parties can restore them correctly and not go in blind. Some may say that would open the floodgates to copies. I don't necessarily believe that as its currently pretty easy to dig up provenance on older cars and if more facts are known on the true intricacies of the CSL's it would become easier to check on the validity of a car....all my 2 cents...
Disclaimer….
To my scanty knowledge, officially there are 4 carb CSLs for sale (3 Inka, 1 Golf)
One in the UK with Fast Classics price, £280K/ €335 recently restored
One in Italy (the one being discussed), price £306K/ €365K restored
One in Germany, €299K restored over 10 yrs ago.
One in the US (Golf/ Terry Sather) needs a full restoration. Price 150K I believe.
None of the restored cars is even close to perfect, certainly not IMHO, for their respective asking price. For the majority of us, certainly for me, 300K (at least) for a carb CSL should bring one hellve car without a long list of fix ups’, some of which are expensive fixes involving replacing panels, steering wheels, rims, wood work, grills (a full PPI would surely bring more jobs to light).
@tferrer AFIK…All carb cars had either PERSPEX or RESARTGLASS and Glaverbel (rear quarters and rear windshield along with Glaverbel lightweight front wind shield), light weight carpets, no covers on the side of the seats and ofcourse the Csl lightweight suspension with the progressive springs and upside down front forks with negative camber. Never having seen a true original carb csl….. I’m only regurgitating that what I’ve learnt along the way.
Yes, one can swap the lip without the whole nose cone but for the price asked, it needs to look right and even that should have been taken Into consideration. The German car for example needs a rear CSL panel replacement, it’s missing the inbuilt fog light and has the uneven slots in front.
The (carb) CSL specialists like @Gerrit @BMW Pete can surely shed far more light about all the types of CSLs.
To my scanty knowledge, officially there are 4 carb CSLs for sale (3 Inka, 1 Golf)
One in the UK with Fast Classics price, £280K/ €335 recently restored
One in Italy (the one being discussed), price £306K/ €365K restored
One in Germany, €299K restored over 10 yrs ago.
One in the US (Golf/ Terry Sather) needs a full restoration. Price 150K I believe.
None of the restored cars is even close to perfect, certainly not IMHO, for their respective asking price. For the majority of us, certainly for me, 300K (at least) for a carb CSL should bring one hellve car without a long list of fix ups’, some of which are expensive fixes involving replacing panels, steering wheels, rims, wood work, grills (a full PPI would surely bring more jobs to light).
@tferrer AFIK…All carb cars had either PERSPEX or RESARTGLASS and Glaverbel (rear quarters and rear windshield along with Glaverbel lightweight front wind shield), light weight carpets, no covers on the side of the seats and ofcourse the Csl lightweight suspension with the progressive springs and upside down front forks with negative camber. Never having seen a true original carb csl….. I’m only regurgitating that what I’ve learnt along the way.
Yes, one can swap the lip without the whole nose cone but for the price asked, it needs to look right and even that should have been taken Into consideration. The German car for example needs a rear CSL panel replacement, it’s missing the inbuilt fog light and has the uneven slots in front.
The (carb) CSL specialists like @Gerrit @BMW Pete can surely shed far more light about all the types of CSLs.