proposal:
response:
well done ...
response:
well done ...
the tesla dumb
- Thread starter deQuincey
- Start date
Bet they did not put themselves in that formation in the self driving mode. Now Start them all on self driving mode and see if they can form a straight line without scratching a fender. Highly doubt it. Place a couple of child-size dummies among them and watch them run them over.
I test drove a Tesla and felt like I was driving a i-phone. One of the things that scares me is they push out new apps to the car. Apple pushes out apps on my phone and many times things change I do not want changed. My phone overnight suddenly triplicated all my contacts. Maybe I am a dinosaur but I love opening the hood of my E9 and actually knowing what everything does. Last comment about Tesla is...if I am going to pay $100k for a car I do not want everyone to have the exact same car. Here in bay area you see a tesla every 5 min....and they all drive the speed limit...so annoying
Why all the hate?
It's pretty easy to pick any segment of the total population of vehicles and poke fun at it (including 50 year old German cars
). What's the purpose?
It's not an either/or thing. You don't have to give up your vintage cars or your ICE vehicles. I'm proof of that.
However, I will never buy another ICE vehicle as a daily driver. I'm now spoiled. But that's just me. I give you permission to drive anything you want and I won't critique your choice or be offended.
It's pretty easy to pick any segment of the total population of vehicles and poke fun at it (including 50 year old German cars
). What's the purpose? It's not an either/or thing. You don't have to give up your vintage cars or your ICE vehicles. I'm proof of that.
However, I will never buy another ICE vehicle as a daily driver. I'm now spoiled. But that's just me. I give you permission to drive anything you want and I won't critique your choice or be offended.
They added that feature for me? At one time I had a single friend in the Facebook app.
Tesla is an amazing example of a startup redefining the whole industry.
However, I can never own a tesla due to me not wanting to give one red cent to that nutjob Musk
However, I can never own a tesla due to me not wanting to give one red cent to that nutjob Musk
He is just a tad polarizing.
I'm sure not everyone here will agree with this sentiment, but I really wish there was more oversight and regulation of self-driving and autonomous vehicle development. It's the wild west out there, and there have been numerous accidents and fatalities as a result of these systems being used incorrectly or just failing during testing on public roads.
I expect our next DD will be electric, and I think that will be cool. My main concern with electrics right now is very much an edge case: we drove to Moab for spring break a couple of years ago and we drove the 15 hours straight through. That might not have been possible in an EV, or at minimum it probably would have taken longer. I did recently see that GM is making some breakthroughs in recharging times so I'm sure these things will continue to evolve and get better, just like ICE vehicles have.
I expect our next DD will be electric, and I think that will be cool. My main concern with electrics right now is very much an edge case: we drove to Moab for spring break a couple of years ago and we drove the 15 hours straight through. That might not have been possible in an EV, or at minimum it probably would have taken longer. I did recently see that GM is making some breakthroughs in recharging times so I'm sure these things will continue to evolve and get better, just like ICE vehicles have.
Dick, it's not hate. I tried to keep it light while raising a serious concern about this too quickly evolving technology that can be life threatening. I thought my post raised legitimate concerns. And I agree with coupedegrace above, there is a significant lack of reguation and oversight across the entire EV industry. "The wild west" for sure.
Autopilot comes with every new Tesla. A poorly chosen name. It has to be turned on by the driver and is hardly an "autopilot".
- Matches the speed of your car to that of the car in front of you if you overtake it
- Autosteer: Assists in steering within a clearly marked lane, and uses traffic-aware cruise control
- Auto Lane Change: Assists in moving to an adjacent lane on the motorway when indicator is engaged by driver
Teslas using Autopilot are eight times less likely to be in an accident
Tesla vehicles utilizing the company’s Autopilot vehicles are eight times less likely to be involved in an accident compared to the total U.S. vehicle fleet, data from the automaker’s 2021 Impact Report states. Tesla has long touted the safety of its vehicles, especially ones that operate with...
www.teslarati.com
Full Self Driving for Tesla is still in Beta. It has been released to 100,000 users that have driven 35,000,000 miles in FSD mode. It MAY be released generally by the end of the year but I wouldn't hold my breath.
"100,000 people are using FSD beta, there have been zero accidents that involve injuries/death. Statistically in the US, the average 100,000 drivers have 222 accidents, with 163 injuries/1.2 deaths each month."
Tesla Full Self Driving Actually Safer Than Human Drivers So Far | NextBigFuture.com
Tesla Full Self Driving beta is being used by over 100,000 people. Normally 100,000 US drivers have 12.4 fatal accidents each year. This is over one fatality
www.nextbigfuture.com
The media certainly gives the impression that both of these products are unsafe. ANY EV incident is front page news. They are "man bites dog" headlines and follow the journalist saying..."if it bleeds, it leads".
I can't find statistics for other automakers experimenting with autonomous driving or driver assist features (although there are others). They may not be capturing data real time like Tesla does.
My wife's daily is a Tesla model S. She was in California a few years ago and drove her brother in law's model S and liked it so I had one sitting in the driveway when she got home.
It is a 2018 100D, and I bought it in 2020 with 8k miles on the odometer. I avoided lining Elon's pockets by buying used.
It has every feature including full self driving and my experience with it is okay on the highway, but I prefer to drive and find the "self driving" behavior of the vehicle to not to my preference.
It is great charging at home, I have a dedicated 220v charger and we used it a lot more this year as fuel prices spiked. As for range anxiety, we regularly take it on 3-5 hour drives to visit family on the east coast and usually stop once to "top up the tank," and of course re-charge before we return home. It does take a little more planing, but the stop doesn't bother me as I am ready to get out and stretch my legs anyway. If we felt that we needed do a 15 hour stretch I would take my Audi Q7.
It is a 2018 100D, and I bought it in 2020 with 8k miles on the odometer. I avoided lining Elon's pockets by buying used.
It has every feature including full self driving and my experience with it is okay on the highway, but I prefer to drive and find the "self driving" behavior of the vehicle to not to my preference.
It is great charging at home, I have a dedicated 220v charger and we used it a lot more this year as fuel prices spiked. As for range anxiety, we regularly take it on 3-5 hour drives to visit family on the east coast and usually stop once to "top up the tank," and of course re-charge before we return home. It does take a little more planing, but the stop doesn't bother me as I am ready to get out and stretch my legs anyway. If we felt that we needed do a 15 hour stretch I would take my Audi Q7.
"A Tesla Full Self-Driving smear campaign started by a California billionaire running for Senate has a new attack ad based on a FSD Beta “test,” where they failed to realize they never engaged FSD Beta during the test."
Tesla self-driving smear campaign releases 'test' that fails to realize FSD never engaged
A Tesla Full Self-Driving smear campaign started by a California billionaire running for Senate has a new attack ad based on a FSD Beta “test,” where they failed to realize they never engaged FSD Beta during the test. Earlier this year, we reported on Dan O’Dowd, a self-described billionaire and...
electrek.co
I noticed that some airline pilots are picketing, going on strike, or are on strike...I hope that they haven't been replaced upon return with Airbus autofly....
A day will come when they will only need one "airframe control monitor" per aircraft, I guess. "Open the landing gear doors, Hal" This is getting depressing...
A day will come when they will only need one "airframe control monitor" per aircraft, I guess. "Open the landing gear doors, Hal" This is getting depressing...
Teslas are huge, I just parked next to one!
I am starting to look at fuel cells for hydrogen based vehicles. Hydrogen in electric cars can increase range and efficiency over batteries, plus it has fast refueling. Musk hates it.
One downside is that for every kg of H it creates 9kg of H2O. I had two misconceptions: that the water would come out as vapor, and that vapor is better than CO2. Both wrong.
Ideally the car needs a water tank that is larger than the fuel tank, but then again in water starved California it is not bad if once a day I can water the lawn from my car, especially if the hydrogen is imported from another state or electrolyzed from sea water...
The future is green and electric. Unfortunately I live in the past.
I am starting to look at fuel cells for hydrogen based vehicles. Hydrogen in electric cars can increase range and efficiency over batteries, plus it has fast refueling. Musk hates it.
One downside is that for every kg of H it creates 9kg of H2O. I had two misconceptions: that the water would come out as vapor, and that vapor is better than CO2. Both wrong.
Ideally the car needs a water tank that is larger than the fuel tank, but then again in water starved California it is not bad if once a day I can water the lawn from my car, especially if the hydrogen is imported from another state or electrolyzed from sea water...
The future is green and electric. Unfortunately I live in the past.
Attachments
Sorry no hate here, just not my cup of tea right now. It is sad that so much negative headlines for Tesla. Dick I agree with you. My local head lines read "Tesla Fatal accident. " The car was NOT on autopilot and it was the driver error. If it was a BMW the head lines would not have read "BMW fatal accident". Media seems to have it out for Tesla right now. They are an excellent car and it is amazing that a new car company could come along and make such an impact. Every other car in my neighborhood is a tesla and I just would like to see something different. No hate from me, sorry if I offended.
Lovely Lancia.
Right, just like in the 90's when the headlines said "SUV kills pedestrian" , "out of control SUV" etc.
i rode in a model 3 today, and have ridden in a model s previously. the only problem i have with the model 3 is the look of the front end. i just don't like the 'no grille' look. okay i get it doesn't need one, but it just looks unfinished. i always thought the interior fitout of tesla cars isn't that nicely done. that said, the 3 was a bit better. its pretty quick too. i have given some thought about getting an EV, but been waiting until the manufacturers can develop longer range ... and more fast charging so you can take an EV on a longer trip.
so here's my worry so feel free to educate me ... so what happens when you need new batteries? what does that cost and how long does it take to get them?
so here's my worry so feel free to educate me ... so what happens when you need new batteries? what does that cost and how long does it take to get them?
Hey Dick,
Not trying to start a fight, but I do harbor concerns about the rollout of autonomous driving.
I did specifically say "as a result of these systems being used incorrectly or just failing during testing on public roads." That lumped together Tesla drivers not paying enough attention while using autopilot with the testing or use of autonomous vehicles on public roads where there have been incidents.
Our Subaru has auto-braking, adaptive cruise control and a lane holding feature in addition to lane departure warnings. Not as sophisticated as Tesla's offerings, but that's quite a few active safety features and I'm not against them. And yes, you certainly still have to pay attention. I don't often use the lane holding feature, limiting it to pretty specific situations where it works best, but I'm glad we have all of them.
Those are indeed impressive stats, and Tesla is clever to gather that information and even cleverer to fully control the use and release of it. Take this one for example:
"In 2021, (Tesla) recorded 0.22 crashes for every million miles driven in which drivers were using Autopilot technology (Autosteer and active safety features). For drivers who were not using Autopilot technology (no Autosteer and active safety features), (Tesla) recorded 0.77 crashes for every million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there are 1.81 automobile crashes for every million miles driven.”
The implication there is that the driving conditions were similar for both autopilot and non-autopilot driving, but we have no way of knowing that. Maybe the million non-autopilot miles were largely driven in congested urban areas, and the autopilot miles on open highways. I believe they have the level of data to do that pretty easily. So while accidents per million miles really used to be a pretty good average, and probably still is for NHTSA reporting, we can't make the same claim for Tesla's stats.
Similarly there's this one:
"100,000 people are using FSD beta, there have been zero accidents that involve injuries/death. Statistically in the US, the average 100,000 drivers have 222 accidents, with 163 injuries/1.2 deaths each month."
Okay, the average 100,000 drivers have 222 accidents (no word on FSD drivers' accident rates BTW). But are Tesla's beta testers just average or are they above average? They most certainly are above average as they have to demonstrate safe driving habits as monitored by the vehicle in order to qualify as beta testers. It's supposedly only a seven day test, but I worry that the roll out of FSD will be based on a beta test of atypical drivers and not a true cross-section. Progressive won't take the data pulled from their safe driver monitoring system, hand it to their actuaries and say "this is how everyone drives, adjust our rates accordingly." I hope that such a carefully selected test group won't skew the results in similarly bad ways.
Now you could argue, and probably rightfully so, that Tesla drivers are likely to be safer drivers as a whole just based on demographic factors - probably not a whole lot of 20 - 35 year old dudes driving Teslas. The same thing could be said for a contemporary 5 or 7 series BMW. I'd like to see similar stats for them, and other cars that occupy similar niches. Of course we don't have that info because most manufacturers don't have the level of data that Tesla does (again - smart on Tesla's part). And I'm sure they'd be choosy about sharing their stats just like Tesla is if they did.
I think that Musk deserves a lot of blame for the media's obsession with Tesla autopilot safety issues. He's a provocateur with a minimum level of recognition that words have consequences. All the way back in 2016 he claimed that all Tesla's being sold had the equipment and processing power to be self driving. True statement? Perhaps. Misleading statement? I'd say almost certainly. That statement and others like it have almost certainly played a role in Tesla drivers misusing autopilot, which was the point of my initial worry.
I applaud all efforts to make vehicles and transportation safer. Be they traffic calming features, smarter and better safety systems in the vehicles we drive, or the mythical hyperloop that could greatly reduce the number of vehicles on the road. My primary mode of transport is by bicycle so I have a very closely vested interest in the improvement of traffic safety. Let's do this, but let's make sure there are some adults in the room when we do it. Sometimes it seems like there aren't any around, but maybe they're just overshadowed by the guy with the megaphone.
Not trying to start a fight, but I do harbor concerns about the rollout of autonomous driving.
I did specifically say "as a result of these systems being used incorrectly or just failing during testing on public roads." That lumped together Tesla drivers not paying enough attention while using autopilot with the testing or use of autonomous vehicles on public roads where there have been incidents.
Our Subaru has auto-braking, adaptive cruise control and a lane holding feature in addition to lane departure warnings. Not as sophisticated as Tesla's offerings, but that's quite a few active safety features and I'm not against them. And yes, you certainly still have to pay attention. I don't often use the lane holding feature, limiting it to pretty specific situations where it works best, but I'm glad we have all of them.
Those are indeed impressive stats, and Tesla is clever to gather that information and even cleverer to fully control the use and release of it. Take this one for example:
"In 2021, (Tesla) recorded 0.22 crashes for every million miles driven in which drivers were using Autopilot technology (Autosteer and active safety features). For drivers who were not using Autopilot technology (no Autosteer and active safety features), (Tesla) recorded 0.77 crashes for every million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there are 1.81 automobile crashes for every million miles driven.”
The implication there is that the driving conditions were similar for both autopilot and non-autopilot driving, but we have no way of knowing that. Maybe the million non-autopilot miles were largely driven in congested urban areas, and the autopilot miles on open highways. I believe they have the level of data to do that pretty easily. So while accidents per million miles really used to be a pretty good average, and probably still is for NHTSA reporting, we can't make the same claim for Tesla's stats.
Similarly there's this one:
"100,000 people are using FSD beta, there have been zero accidents that involve injuries/death. Statistically in the US, the average 100,000 drivers have 222 accidents, with 163 injuries/1.2 deaths each month."
Okay, the average 100,000 drivers have 222 accidents (no word on FSD drivers' accident rates BTW). But are Tesla's beta testers just average or are they above average? They most certainly are above average as they have to demonstrate safe driving habits as monitored by the vehicle in order to qualify as beta testers. It's supposedly only a seven day test, but I worry that the roll out of FSD will be based on a beta test of atypical drivers and not a true cross-section. Progressive won't take the data pulled from their safe driver monitoring system, hand it to their actuaries and say "this is how everyone drives, adjust our rates accordingly." I hope that such a carefully selected test group won't skew the results in similarly bad ways.
Now you could argue, and probably rightfully so, that Tesla drivers are likely to be safer drivers as a whole just based on demographic factors - probably not a whole lot of 20 - 35 year old dudes driving Teslas. The same thing could be said for a contemporary 5 or 7 series BMW. I'd like to see similar stats for them, and other cars that occupy similar niches. Of course we don't have that info because most manufacturers don't have the level of data that Tesla does (again - smart on Tesla's part). And I'm sure they'd be choosy about sharing their stats just like Tesla is if they did.
I think that Musk deserves a lot of blame for the media's obsession with Tesla autopilot safety issues. He's a provocateur with a minimum level of recognition that words have consequences. All the way back in 2016 he claimed that all Tesla's being sold had the equipment and processing power to be self driving. True statement? Perhaps. Misleading statement? I'd say almost certainly. That statement and others like it have almost certainly played a role in Tesla drivers misusing autopilot, which was the point of my initial worry.
I applaud all efforts to make vehicles and transportation safer. Be they traffic calming features, smarter and better safety systems in the vehicles we drive, or the mythical hyperloop that could greatly reduce the number of vehicles on the road. My primary mode of transport is by bicycle so I have a very closely vested interest in the improvement of traffic safety. Let's do this, but let's make sure there are some adults in the room when we do it. Sometimes it seems like there aren't any around, but maybe they're just overshadowed by the guy with the megaphone.
Billionaires behaving badly? Wait, it gets better: billionaire politicians behaving badly? I'm shocked!
Catwoman has a wonderful line at the end of an original Batman episode that has always stuck with me. Robin has just said something stupid and she looks at him and purrs "teenagers should be seen, not heard." I doubt I was even a teenager when I heard that line, but I find it to be very versatile.
"Billionaires should be seen, not heard."
It works everywhere.