Elring steel ring head gasket

[twistinglane]

Does anyone know if these are a good choice for a stock engine (euro 3.0 CSI with a '84 head)? List is pricey, but came across old stock for less.
GSS5202
http://www.precisionintl.com/BrandSearch.aspx?Brand=Elring&Cat=14&Make=7&Model=3.2Li

 

[MMercury]

Does anyone know if these are a good choice for a stock engine (euro 3.0 CSI with a '84 head)? List is pricey, but came across old stock for less.
GSS5202
http://www.precisionintl.com/BrandSearch.aspx?Brand=Elring&Cat=14&Make=7&Model=3.2Li

Your post is confusing. Are you asking if a certain stock number will work for a particular application, or whether it makes sense to buy old stock at a reduced price? The latter begs the question, how old? I hasten to add that the link is to an Australian company that lists prices using Australian dollars and not US $.



Elring is a recognized brand that most of us have used before. Even brand new mint head gaskets can have defects, but conventional wisdom suggests that the fresher the head gasket, the less likely it will have any problems. This is an important consideration for businesses that can ill afford returns and warranty repairs. Along the same lines, could newer-currently available gaskets have superior construction to the old gaskets? (I am unfamiliar with any clearly advertised changes in design, materials or workmanship - but maybe others have such knowledge. The old style seems to have worked out pretty well for most of us. Maybe newer is even better?)

Some contend that composite steel head gaskets have a measurable shelf life. The logic being, that composite gaskets don't fare well exposed to moisture, dust, dirt and most importantly, mishandling. The longer it sits on the shelf, the more opportunity for exposure and damage. Conversely, considering the ability of an installed head gasket to function for years under considerable heat and pressure suggests a long shelf life - when carefully stored. (Of course much of the gasket is sealed from full exposure to the elements - when installed.)

I will concede to having installed a few spare head gaskets - carefully stored flat in sealed plastic - on a few of my cars - without any noticeable problems. But I was "reasonably" aware of the risk that the work might have to be repeated - and the examples were not E9s. As I type this, I can't recall the exact age of each gasket, be it months, years or decades.


There is a difference between being young and lucky, versus old and wise.




Gratuitous imagery follows.

 

[twistinglane]

Thank you mmercury. And you included some lovely pictures.

I guess my question is basically a "best head gasket" choice question. BTW searching the forum has turned up less info than i might have though. I've mostly noticed Victor Reinz gaskets available. And on some other forums, opinion on VR gaskets seems mixed. Goetze and Elring seem well liked, but scarce in the market.

Addition:
Using realoem and bmwfans and some googling the part numbers 11129065648 or 11129065649 look current, but seem to be unavailable. While part 11129065638 is marked "ENDED" but turns out to be available. Where manufacturer is identified, it brings up a VR part.

Now the particular gasket I've been offered (for some reason can't attach this small photo) is a premium Elring model with steel rings (also called cutting rings I think) a type preferred on the higher compression tii engines I believe. So is this also a good/preferred design for a higher compression euro m30? (This item Elring 248.835 does seem to be listed for broad group of M30 engines)

Good question about how old the stock is. I'll see if can find out...
Paul

 

[MMercury]

Sorry, my information on the "cutting ring" gasket is anecdotal, as I have never used one. I have removed one from a tii and ultimately replaced it with a stock non-cutting-ring gasket. Seemed satisfactory for many many years. Neither the dog nor the neighbors seemed to mind.

Although there are plenty of good reasons to "o-ring" a block or employ a cutting ring gasket (unlimited boost turbo charging with comes to mind), I can think of countervailing reasons too, including the fact that it is probably overkill for most street applications, expensive and the cutting ring leaves a definite mark in the head, probably limiting its reuse versus an unmarked head.

If I dealt with a particularly troublesome sealing situation - I might be more apt to go with something stainless from Cometic, or copper http://scegaskets.com/, or use ARP studs. See http://e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2183 However, on M10s and M30 engines, I have had pretty good fortune with machinists that knew their trade, clean mating surfaces and threaded areas, and use of the same "stock" head gaskets (or similar) used by or sold at the dealer.