Daytime Running Lights

[bavbob]

So the DOT did a study https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811029 and found no significant difference when using daytime running lights except in light trucks and vans. We have an energy issue in this world so why are we doing this? Will people learn when they have to replace a headlight which is no longer just a few bucks?

I also find that most drivers, in addition to not being able to parallel park or backup without some aid, have lost track of what bright lights are for. In my area, every SUV (and there are ton of them, this is Fidelity country= I wanna be seen in my Range Rover/Porsche/Alpha SUV) has fog lights on despite no fog. 50% of people drive at night with brights on in well-lit streets which to me, increases the chance of collision. Was PT Barnum correct "no one ever went broke overestimating the intelligence of the American people."

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

As much as "we" like to be in complete control when we drive our cars, we want all others to have features that take control away from their incompetent, inattentive selves. "We" would not use a self driving feature if we had one on our cars when they become perfected, but we want everyone else to have theirs turned on all the time.

I personally like the feature that tells me when a bulb is burned out. It should be standard on all cars and it should be an obnoxious enough indication that the driver wants to fix it.

I like the headlights on both my daily drivers that turn on automatically at dusk, in the rain, when driving through tunnels, etc. Just something I don't have to think about that happens better than if I have to do it. Same with self dimming headlights. I'm not against both these features being on all cars.

My newest DD that has all the collision avoidance stuff. It doesn't bother me a bit that it's there and I wish every other car on the road had it. PT Barnum was right, but we aren't going to fix the intelligence of the American driver. Hopefully technology fixes the driver part of that problem....without impacting the enjoyment "we" get out of driving.

 

[bavbob]

I have no issue with what you speak of. I rented a car that had every whistle and I found myself, just for a sec, embracing them but still, I car count, look in my mirrors every few seconds etc because I don't want to solely rely on technology.

I may have mentioned on this forum that I had a Tesla back into me in a parking lot. The women yelled at me because "I did not appear in her back-up camera". Well I saw her cause I turned around and looked..... but she kept coming and all I could do was watch.

I won't get into the cost of headlights these days, you know what they are. I prefer to get them to last until trade-in.

 

[sfdon]

I drive at night with my fog lights on in my old 328i because I'm getting old and losing my night vision.
Any light is a good thing.

On the 2023 car- high beams are automatic- they come on when the computer says you need them.

 

[boonies]

I like the automatic lights and don't mind the backup camera, in fact i rely on it in the Tesla because the visibility is so poor when backing up.

Don, I'm with you. I need all the light i can get these days.

 

[Arde]

Can the Tesla autopilot do Highway 17 between Los Gatos and Santa Cruz?

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

Can the Tesla autopilot do Highway 17 between Los Gatos and Santa Cruz?

Tesla "Autopilot" is their name for an enhanced cruise control. "Full Self Driving" is their name for their beta version of autonomous driving.

FSD Beta does 17 no problem...

There are reports of success with Autopilot...

Would you even try to use autopilot on CA17 to Santa Cruz?

Disclaimer: I am not a Tesla owner, nor do I envision myself as one at this moment. Question: I’ve heard a lot about the driver assist features of various Tesla cars. But are there roads you wouldn’t even consider using any of it? I give as an example California highway 17 between San Jose and...

teslamotorsclub.com

I lived near the Glenwood Cutoff (Laurel Curve) above Scotts Valley for 12 years. I commuted into Silicon Valley over 17. I would personally not use Autopilot in my Tesla over 17 from Los Gatos to Santa Cruz. There is way too much going on. It may do just fine, but it would make me too nervous. Autopilot is fine on normal Interstate type highways.

 

[Arde]

Tesla "Autopilot" is their name for an enhanced cruise control. "Full Self Driving" is their name for their beta version of autonomous driving.

FSD Beta does 17 no problem...
...

Saw a Tesla with a Student Driver sticker on it. What does it mean? The driver is learning how to drive or the Tesla algorithm is learning? And if it is the algorithm, who do I flip the bird at?

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

...And if it is the algorithm, who do I flip the bird at?

Just one of the many problems with these new fangled electric vehicles.

 

[bavbob]

Person in the car, presumed owner/purchaser by choice so they get the bird. When such difficult questions arise, I usually ask a higher being, my wife.

 

[Krzysztof]

We can complain but we will not change it.

In 99% of the cases the driver is the cause of the accident - even in Teslas (by the way for some Teslas are not a cars in the professional way of consideration but this is another long story ;-) ).

We have obligatory daylights for many years. So even in the sunny day the lights are on. There are several cons of such solution like fuel consumption, higher air pollution, degradation of the headlights etc. but many can tell the DRL or Low Beams (depending what car we are having) are making car much more visible even during sunny day.
All in all I think all the technology con's are to be moved on the side being able to save at least one human life (in fact we are saving much much more).

The direction is clear:
- owning a car should be very expensive
- cars are to be refurbished to be able to produce them less, have reuse leading to smaller CO2 footprint from car makers (they need to pay for it)
- future popular cars will be borrowed, not owned (especially due to expensive batteries)
- each of us, living in a big cities will be under pressure to use bus, tram, train or underground
- car will be in a net (V2X, where X is C-car, I-infrasturcture ...) self driven. The number of casualties will drop to almost zero

as the result air pollution will drop together with car accident victims... and We? We will be by ourselves or by some force (taxes, gas, entrance limitations, insurance) to be happy that we are all for Your Own Safety.

I'm writing not to because this is the best way, but the only possible probably and the only leading to dramatic drop of number of victims.

In the end energy crisis will make the power plant owners to switch off the chargers remotely (which is already starting in UK).

Evem in the "rich" Switzerland electric cars are not allowed from time to time to drive due to negative energy balance as most of electric energy is from French where many atomic power plants are during maitenance.

Some of You might be "lucky" not to see that paradise. Some will be happy (by will or by force).

 

[Gary Knox]

I don't doubt the DOT study results on DRL's for driving in cities and open interstate highways. However, I do disagree with their the conclusion for driving where I live..

We live in a mostly rural area about 10-15 miles from urban areas in 2 directions. Our local roads are twisty and undulating and fairly heavily traveled. Also, since PA gets plenty of rain, it once was a fully forested countryside. So, our windy roads are passing through densely treed areas with random moderately open areas. When driving from side roads or driveways entering onto these roads it can be difficult to see an oncoming dark car that is coming from a dense shady area, ESPECIALLY when you are in one of the open/sunny areas.. Thus, in my opinion, DRL's ARE definitely a safety item. I have used LED's in the fog lights - electrically connected as full time DRL's - on my 'classic and antique' vehicles for many years to keep MY CAR visible. I wish everyone had DRL's on their vehicle during those ~6 months when trees are in leaf or for the overcast dark days of winter.

The first 25 years of my life were spent in the great plains of the US. I don't think DRL's are needed there!

Gary

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

I agree with your example, Gary. I would also add when it is raining and at dusk.

DTRLs at least provide a bit more visibility in these low light situations.

All three, unfortunately, probably need to be solved by technology instead of relying on the driver to take the appropriate action. We hate having control taken away from us, but if we can't seem to turn on the headlights when it is raining (even though it is the law in many states), or turn them on when the sun goes down or in tunnel like conditions, we are asking for technology to do it or us. "We have met the enemy and it is us".

 

[adawil2002]

I love, yes, love the people on the U.S. Interstates who drive with their Daytime Running Lights at night, dash lights are on as situational awareness approaches zero.

In the all states I have lived, if wipers are on lights are required, otherwise, the car is invisible to other motorists, especially trailer trucks.

In Connecticut & Massachusetts, driving with 'fog lights' during the day when there is no fog is a ticketable offense. My friend Jefferson Longfellow found this out by getting a ticket. I rarely if ever use fog lights. The few times have been at night in both fog & snow. I turn on the fog lights & turn off the headlights while leaving the 'running lights' on.

I am not a fan of the LED headlights in new cars they look exactly like high beams all the time. They are overly bright & lack any safe headlight 'focus or cut-off' that I have seen either behind me or oncoming on two lane roads. They do not work with 'auto-dimming' rearview mirrors either.

 

[HB Chris]

In CA headlights must be on if wipers are in use but at least 50% of drivers ignore this. And you are right Andrew, so many cars at night without headlights, just DRLs. I do now appreciate the need for DRLs though.

 

[Markos]

In CA headlights must be on if wipers are in use but at least 50% of drivers ignore this. And you are right Andrew, so many cars at night without headlights, just DRLs. I do now appreciate the need for DRLs though.

Same in WA. I like DRL’s for fog and rain. It amazes me that it rains so much in Seattle and drivers still haven’t figured out how to turn their lights on.

Manufacturers mastered the chime when your door is open, seatbelt isn’t on. How about a chime when your headlights are off, and another light sensing chime when you have your high beams on in traffic. Driving with the brights on was far less blinding 30 years ago, especially in the US.

 

[HB Chris]

I leave my lights on the Auto setting, I think all cars should have this feature and if they already do make it the only option.

 

[Drew Gregg]

My H4 low beams are the Hella with the city light in the reflector. The buckets were cut to fit the city light wiring. They are now 20 w bulbs instead of the 4-watt bulbs. They are independently wired to the green foglight switch and are my DRL. Our cars are so low compared to the trucks and SUV's in traffic that I want those lights on so we're seen. The same reasoning goes for the 3rd brake light. Here are pics of the bucket and the 20- watt bulbs on.

 

[Arde]

Study aside, I find that when I see a car with DRL on, I know that car is moving or about to move as opposed to parked. That is a great benefit when looking at the road ahead on narrow roads.

 

[bavbob]

Well, I have not seen the study design and perhaps it does not take into account all types of conditions but the results are what they are and as we say in the biz, anecdotal data does not cut it. My E24 does not allow high beams and fog lights at the same time so some engineer was thinking straight.