Assistance Appreciated

[Wolfy]

Members of the E9 community:

I am new to the E9 world and am very interested in potentially buying a manual transmission 2800cs or a 3.0cs (which would become my primary car). I like classic cars but I have never owned an older BMW. I would appreciate any advice folks would like to offer.

It is interesting - since my performance benchmarks are new cars, I would be interested in your opinion in how the 2800cs or 3.0cs performs. I recently drove a 1966 corvette stingray and I was very disappointed with the performance. A real hot rod in its day, its performance was really lacking in comparison with a new BMW or Audi. While I know that it is tough to compare a 40+ year old car against a new BMW, I still want a car that is exhilarating to drive.

If I had my choice I would buy a car at a low price (I liked the one that just sold in Portland) that needs cosmetic work (paint, interior, wheel, etc.). Any recommendations on what to look for (or to watch out for) when buying an E9?

Also - can anyone recommend a good E9 mechanic in Los Angeles?

Finally, to give a E9 the best performance possible, do folks have any suggestions for engine modifications (special carburation, fuel injection, turbochargers, etc)? I had even read about someone swapping out a larger engine for the stock 3.0.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

 

[rsporsche]

hey Wolfy,

i think its pretty difficult to make any 40+ year old car match up with a current car. perhaps you should find an old top gear challenge where they matched up an Aston DB5, an e-type jag and i think a 635csi (i could be wrong on some of the cars). the Stig drove a lap in an average current car ... and the others fell way short of that lap.

over the last 10 years i have driven an e30 m3, and audi a3 (3.2 s-line) a cayman s and a 911s ... as much as i love the coupe ... it couldn't keep up with any of those cars. i still love it for what it is - a gorgeous grand tourer.

ymmv
scott

 

[Kizilsakal]

hi

I drive a 1964 mercedes 230 SL with a 280 engine as daily driver for the last 14 years. It has the original mechanical fuel injection, disc brakes all round and original 5 speed gearbox which is rare in these cars. The suspension is standard and not very good compared to modern cars.
The thing is it can easily keep up with the urban traffic, long journeys are really fun and any moment I am driving it feels special because of the engine sound and the way it leans in corners and the way people react to it.
I think it is much more fun than driving a modern car.
a modern car can go faster easily, but to drive an older car fast takes real skills.
no abs, no esc, no traction control. I think it is much more fun.

having said this I am restoring an E9 at the moment and it will have upgraded suspension, brakes, engine and transmission. but no driver aids.
at the end it will probably be slower than a modern m3 and will handle worse But as long as I am not on a track I think I will be having fun with it, in daily driving and long journeys.

modern sports cars are driven at probably at %30-%50 of their capabilities at most in urban traffic or highways. if you are not on a track they are way too fast and grip way too good. But with an older car you can feel like you are pushing the boundaries of its capacity to the edge on a b road.

you can always go the resto mod direction and have anything from a slightly modified car to a car that is an M5 with a E9 body.

it is a personal choice, and I believe you should make your decision in such a way so that at the end you are driving it and not keeping it in a garage.

a few nice examples of resto mods
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlDpjb4Wfg
http://www.mko-v8.de/projekte/66.html
http://www.stanceworks.com/2012/03/a-walk-in-the-park-with-my-gal-mike-burroughss-1971-bmw-e9/
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/9375/internet-find-of-the-week-bmw-e9-3-5-csi

good luck

 

[rb1971]

I own and have owned a relatively large number of older (and newer!) cars, and one of the things I like most about the coupe is that is handles and drives (braking, turning, etc.), more like a modern car than a 40-year-old car has any right to even in stock configuration. I think this is also true albeit to a lesser extent of the 2002, which is likely one reason for those cars original and continuing popularity.

But if you want something that can go out and spank modern cars in terms of performance, you are either going to spend a lot of time and money like I did, or you are going to be disappointed. And, frankly, although my coupe is very fast for a 40-year-old car (and faster than some newer performance cars), it still is not a modern car in terms of creature comforts, the HVAC system, etc., etc. Even if you just look at performance, I had to sacrifice some speed on the top end (and mileage if that matters to you) to get the acceleration to a place where I wanted it while maintaining a period gear box and differential.

There are countless engine/trans combinations. Most of us that are active on this board probably have a set up that is at least slightly different than each other, and they all have various advantages and disadvantages. If all you are looking for is max performance, then you will need to source an S38 or do something even more exotic that will probably require a lot more modifications. If you want reliability and everyday drivability then a 3.3 or 3.5 with modern engine management is a popular choice. I would say that if you plan to bump to HP/TQ very much you need to seriously consider body reinforcement as this is a 40-year-old pillar less coupe with all the body flex that entails.

Nevertheless, these cars are lots of fun, they are gorgeous, and the community is great. If you appreciate old cars it's difficult to find a better community.

-John

 

[rsporsche]

having owned and driven daily an extremely modified 2002 (by korman) with 185hp m10 - schrick 316 / 45 dcoes, 5 speed, modified brakes + suspension ... it was a great + fast car ... but it was far from a civilized car. i sold it and bought the e30 m3 - a better car in stock form in every way conceivable.

yes you can build a beast ... you can even make it drive reasonably well ... but i doubt it will beat a stock e30 m3 on the road or on the track ... much less a modified one. and thats a 25 year old car. my point is, if you want an e9, please find a good one and enjoy it for what it is. if you look at what the factory race cars did back in the day ... the times they turned on the nurburgring were eclipsed by the first x5.

yes, Kizilsakal has it right - driving skills make the difference. most people cannot get 10/10ths out of their cars. god knows i cant drive my 911s to its full potential. but i can get more out of it easier than i could out of my 2002. i could drive the m3 closer to its potential than the 911 ... but the 911 or the cayman s was more forgiving because of the drivers aids.

again - i love my e9. its a beautiful and reliable - fun car. but its not a modern car. it did open the door for what modern cars could achieve.

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

Looks like the Oregon car is back up on the market! All the comments below are accurate, I too wanted my e9 to handle and feel like a new car, (I upgraded and renewed everything) and through the process I came to love the car for what it never will be. Yesterday I drove my 07 Shelby GT through the hill country here in Texas with the A/C gently freezing me, a rock solid feel and wonderful handling, but with the e9 it's different, the A/C blows cold but is all but negated by the sun cooking me through the huge amount of glass in the coupe. The torque is just "not there", high rev down-shifts are necessary to carry it through the corners with any speed and then you need to pay lots of attention to what you're doing. I have lots of performance suspension pieces and all the bushings are fresh and there is very little insulation from the road-which I like, but the new compounds and configurations of modern cars allow for much the same feeling with a nicely cushioned ride. I can't say that I would trade the coupe for the Shelby, the 911 or even the F250 diesel- they're all different cars with different personalities and that is a lesson that I have learned chiefly from this group of folks on the forum, for which I am greatly indebted.

Very best to you in your search!

 

[Nicad]

The ONLY thing to concern yourself with at this point in your E9 search is Rust. Some great looking cars have nothing holding them together. Total false economy thinking you can easily deal with E9 rust.
It will drive way better than a Corvette if in good shape. One of the worst cars I ever drove was a 65 Vette. What a disappointment.

 

[JFENG]

Lousy or good DD, depends on your expectations

If you want a modern-ish driving experience, forget about anything from the mid 1980's and older. Even many early 1990's BMW's feel decidedly old and incompetent compared to any mid-sized contemporary Kia/Hyundai, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota, Chevy, VW, Audi, etc.

If you are clear on what a vintage driving experience is circ 1970's, and you find the discomfort, lack of performance, and lack of safety worthwhile tradeoffs for the positives ... then an E9 would be fine. I have 5 old cars from the 1950-70's, I drive them quite a bit, but I would not consider using any of them as a DD. In the last 20 years I've been in 4 accidents (other person's fault), each of which totaled both vehicles. In several of those someone in the passenger seat would either have died or been seriously injured. The chances of someone hitting you hard (where I live) go up with seat time ... and are too high to justify driving anything but a modern midsized vehicle with modern safety systems.


E9 as a Daily Driver? If it gets wet where you live then no unrestored E9 is suitable as they will deteriorate pretty quickly. And "restored" doesn't mean a paint job and some mechanical repairs. It means front fenders and rockers off, glass out, fuel tank out, doors off, etc. All sheet metal and inner cavities fully redone with modern rust preventative materials. Underbody prepped to prevent moisture getting between that old cracking undercoating and the floorpan sheet metal. After than, I think you could DD a E9 and not worry about accelerated rust ruining the car after 3-4 years.

John

P.S. Obviously, there are exceptions to this, but not knowing any of your details ... we're all just commenting in a general sense.

 

[Ohmess]

An e9 is exhilirating to drive, but not in the zero to sixty sense. Someone here put it really well a while back - older BMWs are a lot sportier and a lot more visceral fun at street legal speeds. My e39 540 loafs around at legal speeds and really doesn't give you that "damn I am really moving I had better bring my A game" feeling unless you are well outside the traffic laws.

Most importantly. Newer cars are more refined - lots more sound proofing, cushier seats, ABS, traction control, speed sensitive power steering, climate control that blends heat and cold, maintains a constant temperature and offers separate driver and passenger settings; the list goes on and on. Then there is the reliability factor. How will you respond if it breaks down on the road? What is the likelihood you can do a roadside patch and get going again in time to make it to work on time.