What experiences have people had (good or bad) with the fit of new sheet metal parts?

[NZCSi]

Hi There,

My car is now stripped and I've been assessing reproduction parts vs repairing existing panels with my body guy.

The car needs work on:
- Front valance
- Both front guards
- Both door skins
- Bottoms of both door frames
- Tops of both door frames (where skins attach)
- Rear guards
- Centre rear panel
- Middle and outer sills on both sides
- Sunroof skin

In some instances it will be quicker and cheaper to buy replacement parts but ONLY if they fit! We just want to avoid shipping panels half way around the world only to discover they require a lot of work ($$$) to make fit.

What kinds of experiences have people had (good or bad) with the fit of new sheet metal parts and suppliers?

Any advice or stories welcome.

Cheers

Ben

 

[x_atlas0]

I have generally found that the smaller the part, the better the fit, so it may be cheaper to go new for some items, like the lower rocker panels.

However, I have also found that new body parts require some "massaging" to perfect the fit, since this body construction style makes every car a little different.

 

[NZCSi]

Thanks for the reply,

So if we were to pay $3000 NZD (+ shipping) for a complete door from W&N, it would require massaging?

The body guy said he encounters this issue all the time (with other cars) and said that if we then spend another $1-2k massaging the door to fit, it will be much cheaper to repair the existing - which makes sense to me.

Do BMW make these parts - or do W&N make their own?

Cheers

 

[arnie]

What I experienced in general you could have bad luck with every kind of sheetmetal, even if you have original doors for instance. It's always possible, that this piece woult fit perfectly to your car, where it would be a total "horror" fitting scenario in another E9.

I'll do more or less the complete body skin pretty soon (will do a little fred to the community then) and therefor I'll do the complete adjustment between the different parts anyway. So I didn't pay to much intention to how a single part fits inside the existing body.

I already prepared the parts for the coming "operation", the front mask, the front fenders, the rear fenders, a roof skin, and the rear trunk panel and will restore the original doors with skins from W&N, which I bought receintly.
So the quality of the skins isn't really perfekt and there will be additional work on it, when they will be attached to the door frame, but the alternative just could be a complete unused, rustfree original door, which is pretty rare and to expensive (to me). And even with such a part you could have that mentioned bad luck and you need to spend more time and other invest to make it fitting right.

So a doorskin from W&N is worth to consider, because the repair of the frame normally isn't to complicated and the there's a certain opportunity to adjust the outline of the skin to your specific car body (what normally isn't possible when you take a complete door).
For all the other issues, you metioned you could take the parts from W&N either.

Their repair panels aren't from BMW (at least this is my information), nothing for a purist then, but a reasonable possibility to get a "healthy" E9, even if the quality isn't 100 % perfect.

Hope this helps

Ingo

PS: Where in NZ are you located ? We have been to the north island this March for the first time. I probably have the advantage to live nearby W&N to pick up my parts (and save shipping costs :razz, but you for sure have the advantage to live in an amazing Country !!! :wink:

 

[x_atlas0]

Thanks for the reply,

So if we were to pay $3000 NZD (+ shipping) for a complete door from W&N, it would require massaging?

The body guy said he encounters this issue all the time (with other cars) and said that if we then spend another $1-2k massaging the door to fit, it will be much cheaper to repair the existing - which makes sense to me.

Do BMW make these parts - or do W&N make their own?

Cheers

3k for a door? How bad is your car? To put things in perspective, I had the whole car worked over, repaired large (~6" holes) problem areas in several places, and had a multi-stage paint job done for under 10k USD a few years back. Is this place a specialty shop? Most modern body shops can't handle this style of body construction.

 

[NZCSi]

3k for a door? To put things in perspective, I had the whole car worked over, repaired large (~6" holes) problem areas in several places, and had a multi-stage paint job done for under 10k USD a few years back. Is this place a specialty shop? Most modern body shops can't handle this style of body construction.

Thanks for that,

Yes, this is a specialty shop and yes a full door for $3k is not appealing. I think the body shop was assessing the time saved if using a purchased panel - which only works if everything fits.

But from what I'm hearing, it sounds like even original panels from a donor car will require a lot of massaging ($$$) - is that correct? I do realize that Karman were coach builders so understand that panels are never going to fit like a modern car - I'm just trying to understand the degree of massaging required.

How bad is your car?

18 years of English weather, a 90s "English bog-up" before coming to New Zealand for 10 years of Auckland weather (were it rains 1/3 of the time) and 9 years in storage.

Rust is obviously an issue but so is the damage left over from the previous "restoration". Revolting looking welds/patches and slightly distorted panels (by the look of things) all hidden with a thick layer of filler - the tail lights don't fit because of the amount of filler.

It's amazing what you don't notice when you're totally green and purchase a car like this - I was bedazzled to say the least!

At this point, it's sounding like it would be better to purchase floor pans/inner sils and have the body shop repair the outer panels - what does everyone think?

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

Most reproduction body parts require some tweaking to make them fit because the stamping dies are not as elaborate or good as OEM dies. In fact many times the dies are made from Kirksite that’s poured into molds that are made from pieces of an original car. Kirksite was used extensively in the aerospace industry where short runs of aluminum parts are common but it wears out with steel parts so panel features soften the more the die is used.

It was over 20 years ago that I was involved with restoring 2 coupes but I don’t remember the OEM parts fitting badly at all. Many times even OEM parts need a bit of persuasion to make them fit, that’s what being a body man is about. Any modern heavy man has uni-body structural experience today and should have no problem working on coupes if he’s any good, I don’t see them as particularly challenging except that at times you may have to use used parts. ~ John Buchtenkirch

 

[David]

Peter must have enough dry panels and clips in storage to create 100 cars. You may want to shoot him a note on his prices.

http://coupeking.com

 

[Bryce]

Hi, where in NZ are you? There was a CS that was stripped apart for a restoration but was for sale in Rotorua last year. It may not have sold - he was asking around $1000. I don't know but it may have doors that are good enough compared with $3000ea! I can try and find/contact him again if you're not in this area.

I brought aluminum skins off W&N and they fitted quite well. I haven't quite finished them, but fixing the rust in the door frame and replacing the skins should be way cheaper than buying new complete doors. I'd send you a pic if you needed one of the doors fitted with skins on (not yet painted).

If you're considering a full restoration with a cheque book I can give you a very honest guess at my version..... 027 542 5380

cheers, Bryce.

 

[NZCSi]

Thanks guys,

@John: Thanks for that John, the body guy is not worried about the skill required - he currently has several completely stripped classics on chassis machines, including a Ferrari (he's not a crash repair panel beater) and does nice work. It sounds like OEM panels or panels from donor cars would work fine if they're the right price.

@David: Based on Peter's website, I thought those panels were for his restorations but will ping him an email anyway - thanks for the suggestion.

@Bryce: If you have any info on that car in Rotorua, it would be worth checking up on it but only if it's easy - thanks heaps for the offer, I'm in Auckland.

Cheers

 

[Bryce]

The Cs is still for sale complete not as parts.
Peter Roling (Roling Panel Works in Rotorua)
Ph 07 3478095 during the week. Or 027 2711762

 

[NZCSi]

Thanks mate, have left a message on hi mobile.

Cheers - much appreciated.