Trade? E30 M3 for E9

[jibbajabba]

The e9 bug bit awhile ago and it's getting worst! Just wondering if any E9 owners were interested in trading projects. My 1988 E30 M3 project w/ no engine for a similarly completed E9 project with no engine.

I figured they had similar values, so why not see if anyone else is as crazy as I.

Link to a thread with pics of the car: Build Thread Here

The complete engine/transmission and EMS system would not be traded, I'm keeping that for the E9.

Located in Sacramento, CA. Call me if possibly interested and to discuss, 916-367-3350 or email me at [email protected]

Thanks,

Josh


_____________
1988 E30 M3 - S38 3.8L - Build Thread Here
WANTED: E9 Coupe w/ no engine
1970 2002 - S14 2.5L
2011 GTi - 2.0T

 

[rb1971]

Good luck! There was a guy in SoCal trying to sell a 75%-complete project for about 20k a while ago, maybe search him out and see if his is still available.

Except for abandoned projects, since the bodywork is the toughest part of the E9 restoration, it might be difficult to find someone to do that swap. I'm not sure the value of a perfect-car-without-motor E9 vs. E30 is that close. I can tell you that the S38 is tons of fun in the E9.

 

[rsporsche]

having sold my e30 m3 a few years ago (that i owned for about 8 to 9 years), i can tell you that they are NOT similar values. i would say that similar condition m3 is worth about 67% of a similar e9.

please do not misunderstand me - the e30 m3 is one of my all time favorite cars that i've owned. i love my coupe, but a great coupe does not drive as fabulously as perfectly balanced as the m3. the power of the coupe is a lot different - the rev it to the redline of the s14 is wonderful. but it ain't a coupe. the coupe is so gorgeous.

good luck though. the value of e9 and e30 m3 are both going up. if you follow the e30 m3 sig, there has been discussion of the increase in values. we are having similar discussions here.

cheers
scott

 

[jibbajabba]

For fully restored cars, yes I would agree an E9 will fetch more...depending on the model of course, for example a 2800cs vs 3.0csl.


However, I'm referring to non-running, almost completed project cars with no engines. Not fully restored ones.

 

[rsporsche]

its still a proportional thing. for a decent e30m3 shell you will get a rust bucket e9. the s14 engine will cost a whole lot more than an m30, and the ending value of an e9 in similar condition is higher. so do the math if the e30 m3 is worth 2/3 of the e9, and the s14 engine is at least 3 times the cost of an m30 - the value of the shell is substantially less. sorry, i don't think you'll get any takers. not much cost difference between a 2800cs + a 3.0cs.

i will wish you luck though - everybody has to have a dream.

 

[jibbajabba]

its still a proportional thing. for a decent e30m3 shell you will get a rust bucket e9. the s14 engine will cost a whole lot more than an m30, and the ending value of an e9 in similar condition is higher. so do the math if the e30 m3 is worth 2/3 of the e9, and the s14 engine is at least 3 times the cost of an m30 - the value of the shell is substantially less. sorry, i don't think you'll get any takers. not much cost difference between a 2800cs + a 3.0cs.

i will wish you luck though - everybody has to have a dream.

All i can do is roll my eyes at this response. You obviously have no idea what your talking about.

 

[ccr2002]

?

All i can do is roll my eyes at this response. You obviously have no idea what your talking about.

His logic is sound to me. Furthermore, there are many more dry e30 shells still around than e9 bodies...anyway. I hope he gets his e9 though.

 

[jibbajabba]

His logic is sound to me. Furthermore, there are many more dry e30 shells still around than e9 bodies...anyway. I hope he gets his e9 though.

His logic is flawed and full of holes, but its his opinion and that is compleatly fine.

I'm sure I'll find one, just a matter of time! I would just buy one, but I know I will end up tearing it down anyways. So picking up a project makes more sense for someone like me.

 

[rsporsche]

All i can do is roll my eyes at this response. You obviously have no idea what your talking about.

Really??? i think you are speaking about yourself.

I also recommend that when you come onto a new forum and ask a question that you not slam people who give you bad news for what several people have already stated is not well-conceived.

 

[x_atlas0]

Gentlemen, please keep it civil. You have both made your opinions known, so let's leave it at that. We don't want things to degrade around here, right?

 

[HB Chris]

.....when you come onto a new forum and ask a question that you not slam people who give you bad news for what several people have already stated is not well-conceived.

I agree with this advice, some of us have been around coupes for quite a while and have learned from experience the hard way.

 

[jibbajabba]

rsporsche...
There are just to many variables and variations to consider when determining the value of something. If you don't know these variables, then you can't make a judgement like you did. It's as simple as that.

Gentlemen, please keep it civil. You have both made your opinions known, so let's leave it at that. We don't want things to degrade around here, right?

Agreed and done.




For future readers, here is a more detailed idea of what I would be interested in.

A complete early project car with a complete interior or at least 80% complete. It does not have to be all reupholstered or in perfect condition as long as most of the parts are there. Rust is expected, as with any E9 and I can deal with that no problem. Just no completely rusted out cars. Paint condition should look good at say 10ft, doesn't have to be perfect just look good for the age. Automatic or manual gearbox, doesn't matter. With no engine, bad engine or even a "ran when parked" type. It would be removed anyways.

My car has been mechanically gone through front to rear. All new parts and hardware. I have an exel sheet log and receipts for everything I have purchased over the last 4 years. Last time I summed it, it was over $30k, but that includes about $15k worth of engine parts. That doesn't include anything from the last year though. I do have the original S14 for the car also, which i don't want to give up but for the right car I will. All body panels are original, this is a 100% rust free car with a clean title. All this car needs is the engine and trans. (if something isn't worked out with the S14 that is). The interior is nice but the rear seat would need to be recovered.

Project car, that's what I'm looking for. Something to spend my weekends putzin around on while drinking some brews. I enjoy that more then driving. Not expecting a concours level car or anything.

Hope that clears it up.

 

[Nicad]

Can you post photos of what you have?

 

[jibbajabba]

Can you post photos of what you have?

I'm about to head in to work, so here is a link to some of the ones I have in my photobucket account. If anyone would like to see any other photos just let me know.

-Josh

Click the link below:

http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z59/joshuaparkjohnson/E30%20M3%20S38/?start=all

You can also browse this thread for more pictures: http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48320





.

 

[Arde]

Nice pictures.
The simplest way may be to sell the E30 project and then buy an E9 project without mandating that the values be the same or the buyers be the same.

I see that trading projects has a desirable emotional component, I recall two trading offers posted on the board, one for a nice Boxster and the other for a pretty rare lightweight E36 with less than 100 miles.

They got me thinking what if, but Verona is still there, proving my pet peeve that market value is what a buyer is willing to pay for something AS LONG AS there is a seller that is willing to part at that value.

Good luck.

 

[craterface]

The incomplete e9 project was offered by a couper with the alias
D-Ace I believe. Look him up and pm him. The car was in Santa Barbara.

I just sold my e30 m3 and still have the coupe, which I will never sell. The coupe makes much more sense in straight, flat Florida. One thing to be clear, the build quality of the coupe body is terrible relative to the e30. As has been noted, the cost of a donor stock m30 ranges from free to maybe 750 bucks. I doubt anyone would restore the shell of an e9 and then give up, because the mechanical parts are so easy and cheap to do. Just sell your roller e30, or put the s14 back in it and sell the whole car. With 15 or 20k you can buy a good starter coupe or that project in SB. Good luck. Coupes are worth it. Nothing like that vintage feel IMO.
Scott

 

[jibbajabba]

Yeah...the more and more I look at them the more I want one. Dropping in a near 400hp S38 will require several chassis reinforcements, so I'm prepared for that.

Thanks for the info on SB car.

 

[rsporsche]

Nice pictures.
The simplest way may be to sell the E30 project and then buy an E9 project without mandating that the values be the same or the buyers be the same.

Arde has excellent advice that you should heed. buy a decent driver and put that s38 in it - you will have a lot of fun.

all of my previous comments are based on conditions being approx. equal. comparing your e30 m3 to a similar condition e9 is no contest - yours looks very nice, but a similar condition e9 would be a lot more because of all the body work that would have been done. your car is worth more complete with the s14 in it, and should be much easier to sell for a reasonable amount complete.

lets look at values -

COMPLETE CARS
e30 m3 - in need of some work / very high mileage - $7.5k to $12k. in good to excellent shape $15k to $45k (the latter being very low miles in perfect shape) the majority of very good cars are sold between 19k + 25k. the top cars on the market right now are listed for less than 40k - and most people on the SIG think they are overpriced.
evo 2 + evo3 cars are much rarer and the cost is significantly higher - much like the CSL.

3 for sale on ebay - a very nice red car in California $25.9k buy it now, a white car in California $17.5k buy it now, salmon gray w/ s52 transplant - 15k current bid.

now for the e9 coupe (as discussed on this site)
parts car $2000 to $5000
rusty car $6000 to $10,000
good driver with some issues $12000 to 18000
very nice driver $22,000 to 30,000+
garage queen / fully restored car - $35,000 to $75,000 (at least 10 have sold in this price range in the last 12 months - all north of $40k)
CSL - series 2 BAT - outrageous

current cars on ebay -
agave (houston) - 30k current
blue (nashville) - buy it now $29.5k
red (san francisco) - 12.6k current
black (oklahoma) - $11k buy it now - kinda rusty
green (oregon) - $8.5k w/ 9 days left

ENGINES
the cost of an s14 w/ injection (not rebuilt) is $2500 to $4000, and a stock rebuild can run $7000+ and its not hard to get a non-stock s14 to 15k+. (none for sale on ebay or on the SIG - didn't check s14.net because they are changing servers / site down)

an m30 engine (bulletproof) - ranging on ebay between $290 + $1000 - rebuilt engines $3k to 3.5k.

ROLLING SHELL
the cost of a reasonable M3 without drivetrain - $5000 to $10,000 - condition questionable (not as good as yours) - the drivetrain is the expensive part to replace.

the cost of an e9 w/o drivetrain - haven't seen too many for sale in last couple of years. if the rust has been abated - $20k+ ... otherwise its the price of a decent car - $10k+ (the cost of the drivetrain is the cheap part here).


here's the conclusion of the comparison - lets assume a complete car with a value of $20k - and what that buys (body / mechanical). take the engine away and the cost to put it in - take a minimum of $6k for the m3, and probably $2k for the e9. sure this is a hypothetical comparison.

the cost to make the cars equivilent w/ similar body condition - much more expensive for the e9 because all of the trim is so expensive and hard to get in great condition. Chrome belt trim - $1000 plus install, front grilles $850 new, door gaskets $500. bumpers - expensive. comparatively, e30 m3 grill $200, no belt trim, bumpers - cheaper + easier to find in good used condition.

 

[HB Chris]

Scott,

I think you have covered all of the variables in great detail, thanks for taking the time to help explain your rationale.

Chris