Engine restoration / Turbo

[bmwe91974]

hey with you, I just bought a 735 from 82 will hear about it pay to restore the engine fom 735 . I'm going to try to find a turbo kit from 745 and after see if it can be mounted in my beautiful E9. The engine has been running around 280000km.
What is the MAIN thing you have to replace in engine to run perfectly with the turbo.
The engine sounds really good but has traveled many miles, wheat is not whether it can withstand a turbo!

thanks Krister.

 

[x_atlas0]

Many boosted M30s have started in the 150k+ mile range. If the motor passes a compression and leakdown test, it should be fine for boost. Depending on how high you want to go (in terms of boost) you may want to drop the compression ratio, as the Euro version's 9.0:1 CR is a bit on the high side for a boosted M30, especially above .5 bar. Intercooling is a must either way.

Is there any reason you want to go with the 745 setup? There are kits available that perform much better.

 

[jranmann]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-...5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_11283wt_1167

Speak with David at eCarToys 760-409-0608

 

[Bertocchi]

Depending on how high you want to go (in terms of boost) you may want to drop the compression ratio

I agree with Atlas on this point, I think it is critical myself. I am also a big fan of ceramic coatings. Piston domes and skirts that are ceramic coated reduce the heat transfer when oil splashes up on the under side of the piston.
Calico coatings in Denver, NC does a great deal of the Nascar coatings.
From my experiences with Calloway I learned that getting sufficient air to the intercooler is also important. Reeves liked to use the Porsche 944 turbo duct mounted on the hood. I don't think it would look good on a e9 though!
What do you plan to do for intercooler air supply?

 

[sfdon]

I would think 2x about a 10:1 euro engine with a turbocharger.

 

[x_atlas0]

The Euro standard M30 did not have a CR of 10:1, as far as I know. The regular units had a CR of 9.3:1. Still on the high side, but 10:1 was in S-engine territory. (or the M90)

 

[TodB]

Dyno chart

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E...t_11283wt_1167


Huh. I've never seen a dyno chart with a loop in it before.

 

[sfdon]

The M90 engine is the only m30 b34 with a bore of 93.4 and 9.3:1 compression.
Take a look at the attachment which is from BMW's own CD.

The second edition of m30 b34 changed to a 92 mm bore but raised compression to 10:1 for the Euro model. {also know as the Euro dirty motor due to no smog equipment.}

 

[bmwe91974]

Many boosted M30s have started in the 150k+ mile range. If the motor passes a compression and leakdown test, it should be fine for boost. Depending on how high you want to go (in terms of boost) you may want to drop the compression ratio, as the Euro version's 9.0:1 CR is a bit on the high side for a boosted M30, especially above .5 bar. Intercooling is a must either way.

Is there any reason you want to go with the 745 setup? There are kits available that perform much better.

hi no there is no reason why I chose 735 set up. but I think that this is the kit that the engine has best of since a 745 suit approximately 250 horses.
Why do you think that it is must to install but must intercooler.! what systems are best for a M30 b35engine, I thought if having to install turbo would be best if i had some forging pistons .
I do not want my car to a super fast car, but it may well move
How much horsepower can a B35 engine endure without it crashes all the time.
As you know there are no speed limit in germany:mrgreen:

 

[Bert Poliakoff]

I wonder why one would go through the trial and costs of a turbo for 250 horsepower. I had my M90 rebuilt and appropriately modified to where I believe I will have approx 250hp at a cost of $3100 for the engine work.

 

[bmwe91974]

I wonder why one would go through the trial and costs of a turbo for 250 horsepower. I had my M90 rebuilt and appropriately modified to where I believe I will have approx 250hp at a cost of $3100 for the engine work.

when you think if i rebuild an engine for about € 3100, I can get about 250 horses, is it on wheels or behind the bench!
But it would be super if it can get 250 horses from an injection engines (old engine and und rear wheels)

 

[sfdon]

Sounds like a nice engine Burt!

Price for a m106 engine and mods to make 300 hp+ is 2500 bucks.
Price for a m30 b35 engine with chip rated at 240+hp is 2000 bucks
Price for the Alpina B7 turbo engine with 300hp going into the coupe this spring..
Almost priceless......

 

[jranmann]

The M30 powered a series of BMW 6-cylinder E9 and BMW E24 coupes to European Touring Car Championship (ETCC) throughout the '70s and into the middle 1980s, even though a more powerful DOHC 24-valve head had been developed for high performance motorsports and street use.

A production turbo variant of the M30 designated the M102B32 or M106B34 (depending on 3.2 or 3.4 liter displacement) was used in the BMW E23 Seven Series where it was designated "745i", based on a then-current projection that the horsepower produced was roughly equal to that of a 4.5 liter normally-aspirated engine. The 3.5 DOHC M5 and M6 engine was used in the South African 745i from 1984-1986.

Dynotech in Oceanside CA does a nice conversion and has done several e9's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJiXWN5bQY4

For the ideal low-compression/low boost (6psi) BMW M30b106 engine See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M30

The 745i was a special high-performance model offered in left-hand-drive European markets between 1979 and 1986. It was originally fitted with a specially-prepared 3.2 L type-M30 six cylinder engine and a turbocharger producing 10 psi of boost, BMW engine code M102. In 1984 the engine grew to 3.4 L, BMW engine code M106, produced 6 psi intake pressure, and produced the same power output as the M102. These cars were all built with automatic transmissions (although there is documentation supporting how the ECU was modified at the factory to work with Getrag 5 speeds), and could be ordered with exotic options such as heated front and rear power reclining seats, auto-on aux interior gasoline fired heaters, leather covered cellular telephones, front and rear seat heaters, rear-armrest radio control, water buffalo hide upholstery, and burl wood trim. The water buffalo interior model was the Executive trim option, while the High Line trim package offered ivory leather interior trim including a leather dash board, sun visors, headliner, and other leather bits not offered on the Executive.
A different 745i was built for the South Africa market, because the turbocharger on the European-market 745i could not be installed in right-hand-drive versions of the car due to space restrictions in the engine bay (in RHD configuration, the steering shaft occupied the space where the turbocharger/exhaust was located on LHD versions). This car was fitted with the 286 hp (213 kW) dual-camshaft 24-valve type-M88 /3 Motorsport engine (with a Bosch ML-Jetronic fuel injection system) as used in the M635i, and M5. 209 of these cars were built between 1984 and 1986, fitted with either an automatic transmission or a 5-speed 'sport' gearbox. Of the 209 cars built 192 were automatics and 17 were fitted with manual gearboxes.

BMW South Africa ran one of these 745i models in Class A of the South African Modified Saloon Car Championship, the only BMW-Sanctioned motor sport application in the history of BMW 7-series cars.

The kit http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-...fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_11283wt_1167I posted is identical (and OEM) and is what BMW engineered for the 745i as is why those particular engines are being sought after more today more than ever before used in other M30 engined applications and it's a very reasonable alternative for the e24, e28 and the e9 as the compression ratio of the head/pistons is suitable for the modest boost pressures making other
modifications easier and far less 'impactive' both costwise and 'need to intercool wise' ... including significant benfits in engine fitment to the project as a whole.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_Series_(E23)

 

[pj]

I have a complete m102 with all the bits, including a harness sitting in my garage right now, Complete it is up for grabs for $900

 

[TodB]

turbo options

The M106 turbo options are nice and very 80s. You can also chip them, play with the spring and increase the boost.

If you are really, really into the turbo thing, go with an M30B34 or m106 lower end, M30B35 head with better breathing and it also lowers the CR a bit. Tack on a TCD turbo flavor of your choice and a bit of Megasquirt for management and you can boost safely into the teens and get way more hp and torque than you will ever need need or the E9 can handle frankly, but you don't have to boost the snot out of it either.

Go here for more info - http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/

Discussion - http://www.mye28.com/viewforum.php?f=6

 

[jranmann]

m106 lower end, M30B35 head with better breathing and it also lowers the CR a bit.

That was my point (although reversed with the M30 lower end and the low compression M106 head to allow for lower boost pressure) and agree a very good idea...my issue was the weaker chassis (e9) which is a bit dicey and the fact that early Motronic (non-chippable, soldered) in my experience is a much more solid Bosch unit and building an engine and then controlling it with variable chips (how 90's?) requires less skill and perhaps considered an excuse by professionals for ignoring other difficult issues such as matching the cam and porting expertly to the required torque output/weight/etc.

There's nothing wrong with the '80's ... as the basis for this all (The M30) came out of the Sixties!

:mrgreen:

Otherwise a good call, Tod!

Ran

 

[x_atlas0]

hi no there is no reason why I chose 735 set up. but I think that this is the kit that the engine has best of since a 745 suit approximately 250 horses.
Why do you think that it is must to install but must intercooler.! what systems are best for a M30 b35engine, I thought if having to install turbo would be best if i had some forging pistons .
I do not want my car to a super fast car, but it may well move
How much horsepower can a B35 engine endure without it crashes all the time.
As you know there are no speed limit in germany:mrgreen:

Others have taken the stock B35 up to the mid 300s, but then they start running into gasket/stud issues. Many M30s are in the low 400s with a better head gasket and some ARP studs, but stock pistons and stock rods.

The crucial factor with the longevity of a turbo system is the tune. A proper tune will make or destroy a turbo system in short order. To that end, I do not like the 745 system's air metering device, the AFM. I generally prefer a MAP or MAF, due to the better transient response of those devices. (to say nothing of general accuracy) If you wanted to leave it at the stock levels for everything, then the stock 745 AFM would likely be fine. However, if you are going to bump it up a bit, then the AFM can and often does cause issues.

Todd at TCD has (last I looked, anyway) gotten around this using a Rising-Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator (RRFPR) and a tune to re-scale the fuel/spark table. Miller replaces the AFM with a MAF and has a custom tune. One thing I really like about the Miller system is they include a user-configurable chip, so you can change the tune yourself if you decide to change things up a bit later. The TCD kit is more proven, though.