Engine mixing water and oil after replacing head gasket

[jhjacobs]

We always like to hear about positive outcomes!

 

[jhjacobs]

We always like to hear about positive outcomes!

 

[tochi]

followups

New attempt yesterday with a new head gasket (Elring).

I also [trimmed] the [manifold] gaskets since they might have interfered with the [head]gasket.

Good for you!:wink:

For those of us who wish to profit from your experience:

Comparing the head gaskets, how were the different?

Same silicone beading?

Same oil relief hole configuration?

Is it possible the first gasket was defective or damaged (e.g., too thin? hairline crack? delaminated?) or do you think it was just improper installation?

Which manifold gaskets did you trim, intake or exhaust or both? What portions of these manifold gaskets did you trim and what did you use (tin snips)? (If you installed the head without the manifolds attached, wouldn't that have eliminated the possibility of gasket interference?)

Thanks.

 

[tochi]

followups

New attempt yesterday with a new head gasket (Elring).

I also [trimmed] the [manifold] gaskets since they might have interfered with the [head]gasket.

Good for you!:wink:

For those of us who wish to profit from your experience:

Comparing the head gaskets, how were the different?

Same silicone beading?

Same oil relief hole configuration?

Is it possible the first gasket was defective or damaged (e.g., too thin? hairline crack? delaminated?) or do you think it was just improper installation?

Which manifold gaskets did you trim, intake or exhaust or both? What portions of these manifold gaskets did you trim and what did you use (tin snips)? (If you installed the head without the manifolds attached, wouldn't that have eliminated the possibility of gasket interference?)

Thanks.

 

[eltonjohan]

I actually think it was "improper installation" that was the reason why it didn't work out with the first gasket. The second time I applied a higher torque than the first time, probably 40-50% higher - and I think that solved the problem.
The exhaust gaskets were probably not the issue, but I noticed that they were above the head gasket level eventhough I'm not sure wether they really interfeared with it. But you can never be safe enough...

The second head gasket was by brand "Elring" and felt better in quality, though I doubt anything was wrong with the first head gasket. The hole pattern were similar, silicone differed in some areas.

So my conclusion is: apply the torque as specified with the head gasket (didn't get any with the first gasket) instead of following an old repair manual. (I probably overtightened it a bit)

 

[eltonjohan]

I actually think it was "improper installation" that was the reason why it didn't work out with the first gasket. The second time I applied a higher torque than the first time, probably 40-50% higher - and I think that solved the problem.
The exhaust gaskets were probably not the issue, but I noticed that they were above the head gasket level eventhough I'm not sure wether they really interfeared with it. But you can never be safe enough...

The second head gasket was by brand "Elring" and felt better in quality, though I doubt anything was wrong with the first head gasket. The hole pattern were similar, silicone differed in some areas.

So my conclusion is: apply the torque as specified with the head gasket (didn't get any with the first gasket) instead of following an old repair manual. (I probably overtightened it a bit)

 

[deesse231975]

head gasket

Just had a close look at your picture,if you look at the piston holes in the gasket you will notice that only 1 & 6 are in the same position as the pistons, this means it is the wrong gasket .

That's the view from downunder. :wink:

 

[deesse231975]

head gasket

Just had a close look at your picture,if you look at the piston holes in the gasket you will notice that only 1 & 6 are in the same position as the pistons, this means it is the wrong gasket .

That's the view from downunder. :wink:

 

[tochi]

Re: Piston holes?

Just had a close look at your picture,if you look at the piston holes in the gasket you will notice that only 1 & 6 are in the same position as the pistons, this means it is the wrong gasket .

That's the view from downunder. :wink:

I don't follow.

From my screen, the gasket appears to line up fine for each cylinder and the only obvious alignment issue is with the oil return holes. Maybe the problem is with the camera's perspective. I'll bet if the crank were rotated so that other pistons were at TDC, it might appear that the gasket holes for 1 and 6 were not aligned too. Some of the oil holes are misaligned, others are clearly are not, suggesting the partially obscured holes are not essential. I have witnessed this on head gaskets for other makes.

Maybe I am dense or need my eyes examined. If that be the case, I would still like to know what to look out for on my own projects, so perhaps you can be a wee bit more specific. Should I be looking at the pic upside down? :lol:

 

[tochi]

Re: Piston holes?

Just had a close look at your picture,if you look at the piston holes in the gasket you will notice that only 1 & 6 are in the same position as the pistons, this means it is the wrong gasket .

That's the view from downunder. :wink:

I don't follow.

From my screen, the gasket appears to line up fine for each cylinder and the only obvious alignment issue is with the oil return holes. Maybe the problem is with the camera's perspective. I'll bet if the crank were rotated so that other pistons were at TDC, it might appear that the gasket holes for 1 and 6 were not aligned too. Some of the oil holes are misaligned, others are clearly are not, suggesting the partially obscured holes are not essential. I have witnessed this on head gaskets for other makes.

Maybe I am dense or need my eyes examined. If that be the case, I would still like to know what to look out for on my own projects, so perhaps you can be a wee bit more specific. Should I be looking at the pic upside down? :lol:

 

[deesse231975]

In need of glasses

Sorry everyone,I am wrong,after yet another look at the picture,if the distortion when viewed from downunder is not caused by the earths curvature there is nothing wrong with anybodies eyes except mine and the gasket is correct.

Dave

 

[deesse231975]

In need of glasses

Sorry everyone,I am wrong,after yet another look at the picture,if the distortion when viewed from downunder is not caused by the earths curvature there is nothing wrong with anybodies eyes except mine and the gasket is correct.

Dave

 

[eltonjohan]

I think there is nothing wrong with the gasket. Both gaskets I bought (different make) had the same pattern. I agree that the holes for the oil return lookes a bit odd, but probably for some reason.

 

[eltonjohan]

I think there is nothing wrong with the gasket. Both gaskets I bought (different make) had the same pattern. I agree that the holes for the oil return lookes a bit odd, but probably for some reason.

 

[chicane]

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[chicane]

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[chicane]

I may be a bit off base here but that gasket does not look like it fits the engine. Usually a gasket will line up 100% with the metal to metal surfaces and I notice this one seems to be cover many of the critical areas but it is also appears to be covering areas that should not be covered and possibly not covering some that should be covered. I don't see how this would cause the problem you're having but it is suspicious.

I was thinking the exact same thing. This doesn't look correct to me.

I will check if I can find any warp of the cylinder head/ block and clear the threads thoroughly.

That may not be something that you can eyeball. You may have to take it to a machine shop to check for warpage and if so have them shave the cylinder head.

 

[chicane]

I may be a bit off base here but that gasket does not look like it fits the engine. Usually a gasket will line up 100% with the metal to metal surfaces and I notice this one seems to be cover many of the critical areas but it is also appears to be covering areas that should not be covered and possibly not covering some that should be covered. I don't see how this would cause the problem you're having but it is suspicious.

I was thinking the exact same thing. This doesn't look correct to me.

I will check if I can find any warp of the cylinder head/ block and clear the threads thoroughly.

That may not be something that you can eyeball. You may have to take it to a machine shop to check for warpage and if so have them shave the cylinder head.

 

[eltonjohan]

Well, of course you are right that it will be more precise if leaving it to a machine shop for checking.
But I think that you can measure it rather good with a straight edge/ metal ruler and a feeler gauge your self. On my block and head it wasn't possible to fit even the thinnest 0.05 mm blade below the metal ruler.

My problem was due to too low torque.

 

[eltonjohan]

Well, of course you are right that it will be more precise if leaving it to a machine shop for checking.
But I think that you can measure it rather good with a straight edge/ metal ruler and a feeler gauge your self. On my block and head it wasn't possible to fit even the thinnest 0.05 mm blade below the metal ruler.

My problem was due to too low torque.