Comparison of aftermarket suspension

climbernyc

Well-Known Member
Messages
128
Reaction score
43
Location
Bedford
I use digressively valved shocks/struts in my 72 911. Softens at the end of the range and eliminates the harshness of a stiffer than stock TB setup. Really nice. I wonder if chuck at elephant racing could make these for our cars...I'll give him a call


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dp

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
1,110
Reaction score
166
Location
US
Many years ago Boyd Fechner had a proven and tested design he configured. I would like to say first that he was a amazing inventor of coupe assemblies. i was there when he did Carl Nelsons 2000CS . He had rebuilt the whole door jamb to accept the newer door latch we have. ask carl about it.
Anyway, back to the point, I asked him to lower my car. He took the 3.0S springs and cut them about a half of one loop.
then ground it flat and mounted them. What happened is the car is exactly 1" lower and level and the ride is extremely responsive in stability, and doesnt sway at all. and i drive extremely hard. Also it has a nice supple ride.
He mentioned the bavaria springs were made a lot stronger, hence the opportunity to trim them. Im not sure anyone would still try this, but i would guess it would be a fairly inexpensive task. i just know how amazing my unique ride is.
Maybe Carl got his idea from Boyd, Q"uen Sabe
I don't know how you can cut half of a front coil, the perch is fixed and requires a whole coil to be cut which creates a harsh ride. I bought B&G progressive springs for an e12, can't use the rears though, different setup.
I hope its not lost to faded memory but I can't remember which color stripe springs we'd use(red?) You take 1/4-1/2 loop off each end of the Bav springs so the stubs still line up with the detents in the perches. Gring the end flat a bit and they snug down nice. Put a safety loop on the top perch through the upper coil. Bilstein Sports in the front, HD's in the rear. 1/4 loop off of the CS rear springs. Ditto on the safety loop. Use new spring perch rubbers in the rear, you can play with one dot two dot three dot if you want. Thats just how we did 'em.
 

climbernyc

Well-Known Member
Messages
128
Reaction score
43
Location
Bedford
Chuck can revalve the Bilsteins with a digressive curve. Does anyone have the model numbers of the front and rear used with the slightly lowered spring sets CN, etc?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

climbernyc

Well-Known Member
Messages
128
Reaction score
43
Location
Bedford
Digressive Shocks: These are the latest development in shocks and are the opposite of the progressive type. As the shaft speed increases the damping forces increase at a decreasing rate. (Yes, that’s a confusing way to say it.) Digressive shocks still provide low speed damping without being excessively harsh on rough roads and still increases damping at higher speeds, but at a more reasonable and predictable rate. Digressive shock designs are what allow rally cars tackle intense terrain at high speeds.
Summary: Digressive shock technology is nothing short of revolutionary.
Shock valving is sometimes described using a simple numbering system, but all manufacturers do this and in truth it’s still best to test it. Bilstein measures it’s valving in newtons per meter and Penske does it in pounds per inch. The best way to compare two different shocks like this is to put them on a shock dyno.


Chuck has the dyno so he will revalve to keep the firmness we want on tight corners but reduce the harshness on bumps etc

If we have the model numbers he can look up bilstein specs and work from that as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Lotuss7

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
440
Reaction score
26
Location
SF Bay Area
Went with H&B full kit. Spring rate is 20% higher than stock.

H&B specially selected and valved Bilsteins. (Rear is a modified 2002 shock for instance) Shock length shorten for the spring length.

Not a radical drop. About 1". Lower than a CSL but not as much as CN depending on spring set of the day.

E28 24mm front bar.

H&B will talk for hours about the chassis and it's flexural qualities and what they have done to tune the suspension appropriately. They were the Alpina guys in NA in the day and know what they are talking about.

Did a negative camber plate from CN because running 16" staggered Alpina rims and modern tires. Might not have otherwise.

Stable and compliant to a fault. Love the set up.
 

climbernyc

Well-Known Member
Messages
128
Reaction score
43
Location
Bedford
Thanks Lotuss7. I spoke with H&B and their shocks are digressively valved - I'm going with their full kit plus CN camber plate- have to figure out sway bars - they said use an E12 rear bar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Site Donor $
Messages
1,145
Reaction score
110
Location
Seattle
H&B? I could not find any info on these. I am assuming they are not the H&R suspension stuff. Eric - let us know how your setup works out. I am running with the CN springs and HD Bilsteins and find them a bit harsh on rough roads.
 

climbernyc

Well-Known Member
Messages
128
Reaction score
43
Location
Bedford
Parts are ordered. Planning on driving as is for the fall and upgrading in December. I'll let you know the results once done.
 

Henrik

Well-Known Member
Messages
299
Reaction score
59
Location
Oslo
W&N claims that their progressive CSL springs lowers the car 25-30 mm. (479 Euro ex shipping for four springs)
 

Henrik

Well-Known Member
Messages
299
Reaction score
59
Location
Oslo
You are right! So the W&N progressive springs may lower a normal coupe but a CSL will keep the original hight? I guess I must ask them again.
 

WISE9UY

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
577
Reaction score
62
Location
Carmel, Indiana, USA
Ground Control Suspension does an excellent coilover kit for our cars. Fully adjustable camber, toe, and ride height. Slightly stiffer than CN 's springs.

Hi Walter, I don't see these listed on the ground control site. Where did you get them and how much was this setup if I may ask? When you say slightly stiffer than the Carl Nelson springs, how much stiffer... like modern M car stiff or still soft enough for our older chassis? Thank-you for any advice!
 

WALTER

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
603
Reaction score
162
Location
WASHINGTON, D. C.
Hi Walter, I don't see these listed on the ground control site. Where did you get them and how much was this setup if I may ask? When you say slightly stiffer than the Carl Nelson springs, how much stiffer... like modern M car stiff or still soft enough for our older chassis? Thank-you for any advice!

The coilovers for the coupe are listed under coilovers for the 2002. I had to ship them my front struts, but front and rear combo was about $1600 with a $200 discount for military. Shipping was pricey at about $150 IIRC.

I have a coupe with Carl Nelson springs and Bilstien HDs to directly compare the coilovers set up to; the coilovers feel about 10% stiffer than Carl's springs, but not unpleasant at all on decent roads. On bad roads it's not a smooth ride. On the track, the coilovers are very nice; keeps the car very flat in corners even with the factory sway bar. Stance looks better than Carl's and I haven't even tinkered with the height yet.

Ground Control Suspension was a pleasure to work with and turned around my order fast. You won't go wrong with Carl's setup and may save a few hundred dollars, but I do feel I have a slight upgrade.
 

WISE9UY

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
577
Reaction score
62
Location
Carmel, Indiana, USA
The coilovers for the coupe are listed under coilovers for the 2002. I had to ship them my front struts, but front and rear combo was about $1600 with a $200 discount for military. Shipping was pricey at about $150 IIRC.

I have a coupe with Carl Nelson springs and Bilstien HDs to directly compare the coilovers set up to; the coilovers feel about 10% stiffer than Carl's springs, but not unpleasant at all on decent roads. On bad roads it's not a smooth ride. On the track, the coilovers are very nice; keeps the car very flat in corners even with the factory sway bar. Stance looks better than Carl's and I haven't even tinkered with the height yet.

Ground Control Suspension was a pleasure to work with and turned around my order fast. You won't go wrong with Carl's setup and may save a few hundred dollars, but I do feel I have a slight upgrade.

Thanks for that reply! Much appreciated. I have sent them an email so will soon know what the current price is.
 

Lotuss7

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
440
Reaction score
26
Location
SF Bay Area
Thanks Lotuss7. I spoke with H&B and their shocks are digressively valved - I'm going with their full kit plus CN camber plate- have to figure out sway bars - they said use an E12 rear bar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Lotuss7

Well-Known Member
Site Donor
Messages
440
Reaction score
26
Location
SF Bay Area
Hi Climbernyc

Lost this thread. My 1970 2800cs already had a 18mm rear bar. Stock I believe.

As noted before replaced front bar with an E12 23mm front.

Like the balance. Reasonably neutral. Certainly not a pusher.

Let me know how you like the set up.

John
 
Top