Bolt-on carb to FI kits? Very interesting.....

shanon

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Anybody have experience with these conversions?

Dual carb conversion:
http://www.webcon.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=15299

or the Jenvey Heritage set-up?
triple conversion:
https://store.jenvey.co.uk/throttle-bodies-and-components/throttle-bodies/heritage-dcoe

I've scoured the Net and yet to find any real world 'before and after' reviews on these systems....have seen some vids on Jenvey products in modern cars.....or folks about to do it on the 6cyl 240z......

Considering this route before going to DCOE triples.... the mpg gain is very appealing and also being immune to altitude issues....I am in CA and can go from sea level to 8500ft in an 'easy' afternoon....

Anybody?
 

JimV

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Hi Shanon,

I've converted from carbs to triple side draft F.I. throttle bodies. Mine were made by TWM (now Borla) and on a tweaked 3.2 M30. Although it looks quite similar to DCOE set-up, it's far from being the (nearly) bolt-on installation of DCOEs.

The system requires an ECU, so one has to find a suitable unit. Not easy. I made an advised choice (Electromotive) but had lots of teething issues. There is a huge amount of wiring and sensors required to feed info to and from the ECU. Sensors required (short list) are Throttle Position Sensor, Coolant sensor, a MAP or MAF (see below) and a wide band o2 sensor. If you're so inclined you can make your own system with Megasquirt.

F.I. requires a fuel return line to the gas tank. Not a huge deal but you'll also need to replace the fuel pick-up unit on your tank unless it was a fuel injected car from the factory. An e30 sender works, but requires a modification :)->) F.I electric fuel pump required. It also requires an idle air control valve...When the throttles close on an ITB the air flow is completely sealed off so air has to be introduced after the butterfly...that's the task of the IAC.

A seemingly small issue which I encountered was that when first installed, it was nearly impossible to make small throttle inputs without jerking the driveline. At issue was the fact that carburetors are somewhat slow to react to throttle input and so the bell crank in the system which changes throttle rods from horizontal to vertical (mounted on the side of the engine) was designed for just that. It took a while to figure out that I needed to slow the movement of the vertical rod by repositioning its anchor on the bell crank. Not really a big deal to accomplish but it demonstrates that there are aspect of the conversion which one can't anticipate.

You wrote "immune to altitude issues". How will the airflow be metered so that the ECU can adjust the mixture? I initially used a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor mounted in a sealed air box, but it performed very poorly on a trip to the Rockies, so it now runs on a MAF (mass air flow). That conversion required some ECU tweaking by E'Motive and a couple hours of dyno time.

All of the components & sensor stuff I've listed previously are present on whatever modern automobile you drive today, and it works perfectly under all conditions and elevations. The advantage the auto companies have over us backyard types is that they can simulate every imaginable driving condition on a main frame computer for hundreds of hours before coming up with the final production package. I've used two really knowledgable guys with dynamometers to help tweak the system to where it is today and that's an important aspect to consider. Being a dealer of ECUs or having a dyno in one's shop doesn't necessarily qualify them as a diagnostician/tuner of a hybrid F.I. system. I was fortunate to find some excellent advisors/technicians along the way to assist with the system as I couldn't have done it on my own.

I wouldn't want to dissuade you from make the conversion to fuel injection. I am overall very happy with the performance and drivability of the engine as now configured but it took far more in terms of time and resources ($$'s) than initially envisioned. As is typical with sellers of nifty stuff as is Jenvy, they make it seem like it's bolt on and go...but it ain't.

Here's an article I recently came across which describes in general terms what modifications are required for a conversion:

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/en...es-10-things-to-help-you-when-converting-efi/

Oh, and I forgot to say that I moved the battery to the trunk and replaced the brake booster with a smaller device in order to make room for an air box and the MAF.

There are other ways to make the conversion...this is just one.

And as a side note, I have to say that their claim of up to 50% improvement on gas mileage is a pipe dream...:rolleyes:

Cheers,

Jim
 
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shanon

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Thanks for the reply Jim, very appreciated. Think I just might stick to the original plan 'A' all things considered.
 

nosmonkey

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I'm going FI ITBs on mine with an Omex 42mm ITB kit on the Daddywad Alpina manifold kit.

Fuelling system will be taken care of using the Aeromotive Phantom kit which looks like a good AIO solution to fuelling FI on a factory carb car.

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/tech-help/phantom/

Then Goodridge Teflon hoses for an E85 compatible fuel system, everything is faster when you can run it on corn juice.
 

shanon

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That's very interesting/good to know nosmonkey, very cool.

Thx and keep us posted!
 
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