Hagerty on CS value increase

teahead

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"...even though a 2800CS is still worth about 25 grand less than a 3.0CS in #2 condition. "


Really? I seriously doubt that.
 

Markos

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"...even though a 2800CS is still worth about 25 grand less than a 3.0CS in #2 condition. "


Really? I seriously doubt that.

They aren’t making it up, but I can make data say whatever I want with the right sample size. “Still Worth?” The word “Still” implies a time dimension. If you start this comparison going back to 2001, this claim may be true. If you only look at the last 12 months of sales, it likely isn’t correct. We know the end date, that is the “still”. What is the start date?
 

Ohmess

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If I were seeking to buy an e9 and found a 2800 CS and a 3.0 CS in exactly the same condition, I would not expect there to be any difference, let alone a $25,000 difference, in what I would have to pay to acquire either of the cars.
 

Peter Coomaraswamy

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They aren’t making it up, but I can make data say whatever I want with the right sample size. “Still Worth?” The word “Still” implies a time dimension. If you start this comparison going back to 2001, this claim may be true. If you only look at the last 12 months of sales, it likely isn’t correct. We know the end date, that is the “still”. What is the start date?
They are still way off on the valuation IMO; an e9 in "excellent" condition regardless of it being a 3.0 or 2800 cs is well over 100K as we have all seen from the BAT auctions. They have the CSL pegged at 300K, which is a little high I think.

Markos, there is a great book out there called "Lying with Statistics"- If I'm 50 years old and quitting smoking for 1 year will double my life span then I'm going to live for 100 years. If I quit for two years who knows how long I'll live.
 

Gary Knox

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The first book my Statistics prof suggested we read back in the '50's was: How to Lie with Statistics. Still done every day, and I agree, minimal if any difference between the 2800 and 3.0 versions in comparable condition - to me. Do I represent every potential buyer??

Gary--
 

teahead

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There's lots of differences.... 200cc's, drum brakes, a much longer and heavier name badge on the trunk, they're older, it takes longer to say the name,.... there's lots of stuff.

There ARE a lot of differences, but $25k worth? Really?

:rolleyes:
 

dang

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I just realized I still have a 3.0cs badge in my tool box. Cha ching!! I'll be right back, I have to call Hagerty and raise my coverage $25k.
 

dbower

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I suspect that was a typo and they were referring to a $25K diff with a 2000CS, not a 2800CS. One digit = big diff. Sort of like CS and CSL.

BTW, it looks like Hemmings is starting a BAT-like auction process.
 

Gazz

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It's a market place! What is it worth has an arbitrary answer when related to "collectibles". What does the buyer want, rarity, simplicity, looks, modern equipment, an easy to say name to quote Dang? ( I would like to have a Maserati just to be able to say that word in an ownership context, though, if you have one for sale I don't want to buy it ).
If the condition of the cars is the same would I pay more for a 3.0 over a 2800 - yes. Would I pay more for a CSi over a CS - yes. However there are early cars I would rather have than late ones - a roundie 2002 over the square lights for example. Everyone is charmed by something. It's a market sensibility thing. Or should that be nonsensibility?
 

Dan Mooney

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I have a real problem with Hagerty's valuation tool. Frankly, I think it is garbage. Actually, I have a problem with ANY insurance company, whose profits are presumably at least in part derived from paying out the least possible amount of cash for a destroyed car, touting themselves as the de facto classic car valuation portal. Seriously?

I bump up against Hagerty's valuation guide frequently in the course of my business because I buy a lot of cars, sell a lot of cars, and have a lot of customers who use Hagerty as their insurance company of choice. In the past I have been asked to 'justify' how much I charge for a restoration of a Jaguar, Aston, Ferrari, or whatever, because it apparently exceeds what Hagerty think the car is worth! Seriously, like I could care less what Hagerty think is a reasonable amount to spend on a car restoration...

As for their values, they are generally garbage. Obviously the E9 is of interest to the current topic of conversation, although I have countless examples of other marques where they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Starting with the E9 valuation guide, I was amused to find that my 73 CSi doesn't exist. According to Hagerty, the CSi was only offered in 1974 and 1975. I was equally interested to see that my sunroof adds 15% to the value of a CSi (when I was forced to say my 73 was a 74 to use their guide). That's an increase of over 29 grand for the sunroof in a #1 condition CSi, despite the fact I would prefer it wasn't there. Wow.

Touching briefly on other marques, it is only very recently that Hagerty finally admitted that S1 E Types were made in 1967. They had previously incorrectly stated that S1 E Types ceased to exist in 1966. They STILL have Lightweight E Types listed as 1961 or 1962, despite the fact that the Lightweight E Types were all actually built in 1963. There were only 12 of them for goodness sake...not that hard to get something like that right.

Finally, in the past few months, I have tried to buy two Lamborghini Miuras in the course of my business. Literally last week I offered 950k on behalf of a client for a disassembled 1968 Miura and was told that we were so far off base that we weren't even going to get a counter offer. Hagerty have that car valued at 950k for a #1, 'literally the best in the world' example. They have a #4 'driver' 68 Miura at 740k, so goodness knows what they think a disassembled car like the one I wanted to buy is worth?! Unfortunately, I couldn't use the Hagerty valuation guide as a negotiating tool because the seller of the Lambo in question undoubtedly already knew said price guide was utter bollocks.

Sorry for the vent chaps, but Hagerty Shmagerty.

Cheers :D
 
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Marco 54

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Just by way of contrast the Hagerty guide shows that CSL values are down 4% over the last 12 months.
 
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