2231367 Underway

[Mal CSL 3.0]

Hi Wes,

I would recommend you get a wooden gear knob I think they look better than the black leather ones.

I have one with a badge on top. Not original but it is quite period correct.

The real ones from factory had no badge on top as per second photo. This would be the ideal one to have imho.

 

[Wes]

Hi Wes,

I would recommend you get a wooden gear knob I think they look better than the black leather ones.

I have one with a badge on top. Not original but it is quite period correct.

The real ones from factory had no badge on top as per second photo. This would be the ideal one to have imho.

View attachment 39173 View attachment 39174

I tend to agree Mal. I also have a soft spot for a wooden wheel too.
Any ideas on where to source a NOS knob or quality repo?
I think cs werk have an Alpina version.

 

[arnie]

However, the sunroof doesn't want to close completely. If you manipulate the shaft through the hood lining it can be closed again but that's it.
The motor seems to stick just before the rear edge of the roof panel pushes up to be flush with the roof.
The motor seems a little 'tired' when under power so it set me thinking it might be an electrical issue.

It's another rather common problem to E9 owners, that the sunroof might not "want" to close completely.
This is not that easy to sort it out, but a matter of various things.

First of all I'd recommend to disassemble the complete sunroof mechanics, clean every guidance for the cables and re grease it. Remount it and be aware, that the 2 cables are running parallel. Adjustment of the height of the lid is another issue. You'll normally discover the best possible while doing these attempts for adjustments.
Of course the motor could also be a little tired, but in most cases the mechanics are not running as smooth as needed.

Good luck

 

[Mal CSL 3.0]

I tend to agree Mal. I also have a soft spot for a wooden wheel too.
Any ideas on where to source a NOS knob or quality repo?
I think cs werk have an Alpina version.

Hi Wes, I guess Ebay or this forum are the best two options for finding a wood gear knob that's period correct. Or if you get lucky an original (no badge wood version) might even come along.

 

[arnie]

btw: these are nice repros for a really good price imho:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/BMW-02-2002...448151?hash=item23975f1c57:g:zRsAAOSwXeJXcisM

https://www.ebay.de/itm/BMW-02-2002...d=152863448151&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

[Stevehose]

I have that plain wood repro from Germany that I can sell. Mint condish for $20 plus shipping to down under. Message me and I will send more pics.

I tend to agree Mal. I also have a soft spot for a wooden wheel too.
Any ideas on where to source a NOS knob or quality repo?
I think cs werk have an Alpina version.

 

[Wes]

It's another rather common problem to E9 owners, that the sunroof might not "want" to close completely.
This is not that easy to sort it out, but a matter of various things.

First of all I'd recommend to disassemble the complete sunroof mechanics, clean every guidance for the cables and re grease it. Remount it and be aware, that the 2 cables are running parallel. Adjustment of the height of the lid is another issue. You'll normally discover the best possible while doing these attempts for adjustments.
Of course the motor could also be a little tired, but in most cases the mechanics are not running as smooth as needed.

Good luck

Took off the headliner cover for the sun roof this morning. What a fun job it is getting that out without totally mangling it...
Between having that off and taking a good look through the hood line zipper you can access most of the mechanism.
I then tried opening and closing the roof so I can see what's going on. It looks to me like the mechanism is pretty free from dirt and old grease.
The roof slides along the tracks quite smoothly until it reaches the position where the back of the roof needs to lift up to meet the roof seal.
I found that if I gave it a little 'help' while under power it closed like it should. Without my help it looks to me like the motor is unable to overcome the extra resistance for this last bit.
Makes me wonder if that poor looking wiring for the motor may be the cause.
I'm yet to pluck up the courage to pull the whole thing apart as it looks like a bit of a nightmare to get it all back together.
I'd probably feel a little more comfortable if I had a step by step how to guide or an E9 expert living next door.
It was a pig of a job getting the sunroof liner back into position as well..
Tempted to let sleeping dogs lie until she gets a re-spray but I don't know if I'll be able to stand knowing it doesn't work for the next 12 months.

 

[Belgiumbarry]

on the "rally" car i have a manual sunroof... lucky i am ! you can torque it as much as you want , no weak electric motor to do the job
With the roll cage i had to disconnect the handle ... and keep it in the center console. I can use it under a fair amount of angle.

 

[aearch]

i know quite a bit about the sunroof
so what you want to do is pull the treansmission and see if you can adjust the screw in the center
whats happening is the trans is slipping
they are very finiky. and in the end its best to get another which is easy as the 911 is exactly the same and there are a bunch on ebbay
ok
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-...0-SUNROOF-SUN-ROOF-TRANSMISSION-/361354394539
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-Sunroof-Motor-Transmission-OEM-911-564-601-01-/222581961575
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=911+sunroof
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-91...0101-TESTED-/252223732029?hash=item3ab9b4b93d

 

[Wes]

i know quite a bit about the sunroof
so what you want to do is pull the treansmission and see if you can adjust the screw in the center
whats happening is the trans is slipping
they are very finiky. and in the end its best to get another which is easy as the 911 is exactly the same and there are a bunch on ebbay
ok
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-...0-SUNROOF-SUN-ROOF-TRANSMISSION-/361354394539
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-Sunroof-Motor-Transmission-OEM-911-564-601-01-/222581961575
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=911+sunroof
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-91...0101-TESTED-/252223732029?hash=item3ab9b4b93d

So there is an adjustment screw in the centre of the gearbox on the motor?
Can I mull the motor without having to actually remove the sunroof itself, leaving the cables in place?

 

[aearch]

oh yea u want to pull the trans down just two screws and you can bench test to see if it turns while you hold twist the motor input
id you can hold the gear and not turn it would be sliping

 

[Wes]

oh yea u want to pull the trans down just two screws and you can bench test to see if it turns while you hold twist the motor input
id you can hold the gear and not turn it would be sliping

Thanks.

That doesn't sound too hard.
What about the cable inputs, do they need removing from the transmission prior to removal?

 

[arnie]

Wes,

Down under is a bit bit too far away for me to come along and give some support on your sunroof "problem".

The E9 sunroof is pretty easy to assemble. Don't misunderstand, but if you don't dare to dismantle this, an E9 might be not the right choice for you ....

A short step by step would be: clip out the sun roof head liner (as you already did), slide it backwards to the limit. Let the sun roof lid slightly open. As the headliner is out of your way, you have access to the 4 positions, where the lid is mounted to the mechanism. Every 4 are adjustable in height. Unscrew the 2 screws on each position and remove the guides in the front left and right. Also pull the sheet metal part of the backward connectors (therefor move them to the center direction of the lid, because it's hold by some sort of hooks of the bended sheet metal, that is attached to the cable, which is moving the sun roof back and forward. These cables are (of course) driven by the motor. You can slide them separately once you losen the gear box as already described.

At that moment you first have a good impression if both cables are running smoothly in the guides. If it's real "heavy" to be moved by hand you should re grease them. Therefor just unscrew the cover plates in the middle of the aluminum guide. Once you've done that, just lift them up al little in front.

Important !!!: Better not remove the guides completely, otherwise it might become pretty tricky to put them back in place later, because they have a really nasty plastic part at the end, which will most probably remain in the roof, when you pull the guide. Not that easy to describe, maybe take a look into the explosion drawing of this area.

While you lift them up just a bit in the front, you can pull the cable completely out (as long as the gearbox is losen). Clean them up as good as possible, re grease them and slide it back into position. Now is the point to be aware, that both cables are parallel. As you verified this, mount the gear box back into it's place (after you checked and also re grease this also).

Mount everything now the opposite way and use a little grease also for the 2 front guides of the lid.

Here are some pictures from a "BMW how to repair". Maybe this helps also :

http://e9-driven.com/Public/Library/BMW-E9-Manual/pages/de/54.html#refertoc

Once again good luck and be brave, it's not that complicated as it may sound ....

Cheers

ingo

 

[Wes]

Wes,

Down under is a bit bit too far away for me to come along and give some support on your sunroof "problem".

The E9 sunroof is pretty easy to assemble. Don't misunderstand, but if you don't dare to dismantle this, an E9 might be not the right choice for you ....

A short step by step would be: clip out the sun roof head liner (as you already did), slide it backwards to the limit. Let the sun roof lid slightly open. As the headliner is out of your way, you have access to the 4 positions, where the lid is mounted to the mechanism. Every 4 are adjustable in height. Unscrew the 2 screws on each position and remove the guides in the front left and right. Also pull the sheet metal part of the backward connectors (therefor move them to the center direction of the lid, because it's hold by some sort of hooks of the bended sheet metal, that is attached to the cable, which is moving the sun roof back and forward. These cables are (of course) driven by the motor. You can slide them separately once you losen the gear box as already described.

At that moment you first have a good impression if both cables are running smoothly in the guides. If it's real "heavy" to be moved by hand you should re grease them. Therefor just unscrew the cover plates in the middle of the aluminum guide. Once you've done that, just lift them up al little in front.

Important !!!: Better not remove the guides completely, otherwise it might become pretty tricky to put them back in place later, because they have a really nasty plastic part at the end, which will most probably remain in the roof, when you pull the guide. Not that easy to describe, maybe take a look into the explosion drawing of this area.

While you lift them up just a bit in the front, you can pull the cable completely out (as long as the gearbox is losen). Clean them up as good as possible, re grease them and slide it back into position. Now is the point to be aware, that both cables are parallel. As you verified this, mount the gear box back into it's place (after you checked and also re grease this also).

Mount everything now the opposite way and use a little grease also for the 2 front guides of the lid.

Here are some pictures from a "BMW how to repair". Maybe this helps also :

http://e9-driven.com/Public/Library/BMW-E9-Manual/pages/de/54.html#refertoc

Once again good luck and be brave, it's not that complicated as it may sound ....

Cheers

ingo

Thanks mate, this is very helpful.
I know fortune favours the brave so this weekend I'll follow your guide and pull it down.
Sounds like I also need to check the adjustment on the motor's transmission for slippage as well.

W

 

[aearch]

you dont have to pull anything but the trans with the two screws the gear sets in a channel to turn the cables

 

[Wes]

Wes,

Down under is a bit bit too far away for me to come along and give some support on your sunroof "problem".

The E9 sunroof is pretty easy to assemble. Don't misunderstand, but if you don't dare to dismantle this, an E9 might be not the right choice for you ....

A short step by step would be: clip out the sun roof head liner (as you already did), slide it backwards to the limit. Let the sun roof lid slightly open. As the headliner is out of your way, you have access to the 4 positions, where the lid is mounted to the mechanism. Every 4 are adjustable in height. Unscrew the 2 screws on each position and remove the guides in the front left and right. Also pull the sheet metal part of the backward connectors (therefor move them to the center direction of the lid, because it's hold by some sort of hooks of the bended sheet metal, that is attached to the cable, which is moving the sun roof back and forward. These cables are (of course) driven by the motor. You can slide them separately once you losen the gear box as already described.

At that moment you first have a good impression if both cables are running smoothly in the guides. If it's real "heavy" to be moved by hand you should re grease them. Therefor just unscrew the cover plates in the middle of the aluminum guide. Once you've done that, just lift them up al little in front.

Important !!!: Better not remove the guides completely, otherwise it might become pretty tricky to put them back in place later, because they have a really nasty plastic part at the end, which will most probably remain in the roof, when you pull the guide. Not that easy to describe, maybe take a look into the explosion drawing of this area.

While you lift them up just a bit in the front, you can pull the cable completely out (as long as the gearbox is losen). Clean them up as good as possible, re grease them and slide it back into position. Now is the point to be aware, that both cables are parallel. As you verified this, mount the gear box back into it's place (after you checked and also re grease this also).

Mount everything now the opposite way and use a little grease also for the 2 front guides of the lid.

Here are some pictures from a "BMW how to repair". Maybe this helps also :

http://e9-driven.com/Public/Library/BMW-E9-Manual/pages/de/54.html#refertoc


Once again good luck and be brave, it's not that complicated as it may sound ....

Cheers

ingo

So, I've followed these steps and it's pretty much gone according to plan. So far I've found a heap of old grease in both the cables and transmission along with some dodgy wiring for the motor. All this has been cleaned, replaced and re-installed. I even got the guide rails out of the roof and managed to re-install them as well.
I found the trick here is to put the rails back in before the cables. The second secret is to grab the nearest small child, such as my son who is 11, and get them to use their small hands to reach in through the sunroof cavity and guide the track back onto the plastic locating pin. If you get this right the tracks slot right back how they should. Then insert the cable back into its runner and feed it back into position. Note: the transmission should still be disconnected.

Where I'm running into trouble is that the roof still wont fully close, the issue being the back edge of the roof wont pop up into place.
It looks to me like the right hand side swivel on the end of the cable wont come to the vertical when it hits the stop at the end of the track - any ideas how to fix this as it's got me stumped so far?
The tail edge of the roof also appears to be a a little crooked when the cables are fully extended but I suspect this is on account of the right hand swivel not coming to vertical like the left one.
I've tried re-setting the adjustment mechanism on the end of the cables bit even putting this as fully extended doesn't seem to make a difference.

Other that this I've had no dramas on the removal and servicing of the roof, so a big thank you to all the Forum members that have offered advice so far.

Nearly there, then only 500 jobs to go

 

[Wes]

you dont have to pull anything but the trans with the two screws the gear sets in a channel to turn the cables

I've pulled the transmission again as it seems the roof slides well but just wont pop up for the last bit unless you give it a hand. This makes me think it's the transmission as you suggested.
I've bench tested it and it could be slipping a little. I've pulled it down and it looks to me like it's just two gears meshing in order to transfer torque to the cables. Couldn't see a faceplate or anywhere that the slippage could actually be happening.

Any ideas?

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

Hi Wes, There is a black hardened steel clip that keeps the gears together that has to be in place for the back to pop up. Let me know if that makes sense; it sits on top of the gears in the transmission and without it the 'pop up' won't happen. AMHIK

 

[Wes]

Hi Wes, There is a black hardened steel clip that keeps the gears together that has to be in place for the back to pop up. Let me know if that makes sense; it sits on top of the gears in the transmission and without it the 'pop up' won't happen. AMHIK

Finally got that screw loose in the top of the transmission shaft, which allows the two clutch plates to be removed from the brass cog.
The scored one (silver) had lots of wear on one side and I thought this was an indicator of slippage so I've turned it over as the reverse is also scored but minus wear.
The other clutch plate (brown) is concave and also shows wear - I'm assuming it's supposed to be concave?
Seeing as though the tensioning screw was already fully extended so I added another washer to allow me to adjust the clutch again.
Screwed it up tight and put it all back together and back in the car.
Seems to work really well but the cables are stopping just short of the end of the track with the steel stopper. The mounts on the cables are also not rotating the full 90 deg to pop the tail edge of the roof either - I note these appear to be the Volvo ones as they are metal, not plastic.

I've played with the adjustments on the roof mounts and no luck either.
Just don't get it as the whole thing seems to move freely apart from the last bit.

To me the only possible cause of the problem remaining is that either the transmission is still slipping and therefore not sending the cables home or it's the motor isn't strong enough to drive it home?

I think tomorrow I will test it to see if hand cranking the motor shaft allows it to pop up. If it doesn't than it's got to be one of the above two things.

Right?

 

[arnie]

Wes,

maybe your deck lid is missing some parts, that are pretty vital for that closing procedure ?!?

There is a plastic wedge (white colored, if I remember that right) just sitting on either side of the lid without any glue or anything else on a tiny sheet metal, which is part of the lid.

I marked it with a red arrow in the attached picture

Because these are not "hardcore fixed" they might become lost pretty easily (maybe the PO of your car didn't have had too much of a clue about the sun roof mechanics .... )

If one or both are missing, the sun roof won't close completely anymore, because they are responsible for guiding the lid up against the stoppers. (Hope my weak English is still good enough to let you know what I mean).

Cheers

Ingo