The Vintage 2017 Debrief
- Thread starter WISE9UY
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I wonder why my carpets got wet on the way home? This literally drained out for 5 minutes like Austin Powers after a time travel when I took the rocker cover screws off. I am removing all carpet and original tar floor insulation and drying everything out then will rust proof and put new sound deadening on and clean carpets. That rain sucked.
How are the rockers supposed to drain? Obviously I have a blockage.
They are supposed to drain through the rust holes!
Aside from any obvious front wheel well areas (which I think you had sealed up) I have found rust holes under the cracked insulation in the firewall well next to the wiper motor that seeps down into the footwell carpet.
Also if the large block gasket that is thru bolted into the rear side windows gets old and dried out, rain water can seep down directly into the rockers.
Mingle was fine three years ago when the Vintage was a much more intimate gathering. With close to 600 cars, a huge venue and no cell service, it becomes very difficult for people who want to make connections to find one another.
Yup, no cell signal is a real drag. I always wear my blue and white striped Lacoste shirt so people can find me, and I can find myself in pictures. Really wanted to visit and meet more of the E9ers, I'm driving Athena next year. Here I am with my great friend Lisa the Otwoprincess and our new friend Larry aka Bloo dy Buckets.
I swallow hard seeing this picture. How about a viewer discretion warning?
I once had a difficult time tracking down what I thought was a musty odor. Discovered that the passenger carpet seemed damp. Immediately suspected a heater-related leak. Turned out to be metal integrity or lack thereof. Where the right front wheel well's trailing edge joins the floor pan. This essentially corresponds with where some long-legged passenger's feet would rest in the cabin. After pulling the carpet back, an almost imperceptible bit of light could be seen through a lengthy crack. The metal was not rusted, but there was clearly an open horizontal seam , big enough for water to be forced from the front wheel well into the cabin. The crack/seam should be welded, but body sealer seems to have functioned as a quick fix. Prudence dictated not testing the seal with a garden hose.
Since rust was apparently not (directly) involved, swallow, I suspect that the issue was caused by missing the nearby jacking point, instead placing a jack under or near that area. Having an alibi, I can't say when or how this occurred. As I cautionary tale, I can't say I would recommend using any of the so-called jacking points, even with the stock screw jack, except for an emergency field repair. Frame rails and subframes seem far more forgiving. Urethane or wood to spread the load also make good sense.
Here are images found on this forum, that, ahem, highlight the target area. Could not locate a photo directly on point. The first image indicates possibly the best means of accessing the problem, in the extreme.
No wet vac in the pits? Carpet can still be air dried on the fly. Drying time may vary with speed and traffic conditions.
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The passenger side is bone dry (but I am pulling that side apart to also POR-15 and cavity wax for good measure). I am also going to spray inside the frame rails while there - there are plastic access covers under the tar. I pulled the carpets and scraped off the factory tar mats last night and the floor pans are solid but were wet (ouch). So given that water can get in the rockers (and subsequently into the floors) several ways as you say - from the front, rear windows, etc, my question is how is it supposed to drain? When I get the car on jack stands I will compare sides to see why one drained and the other did not.
Steve,
After learning all about your car's history, and the great care you've taken in maintaining that aspect, seeing the picture of the water running out of the right rocker panel was nauseating. I can only imagine what it was like for YOU!!
My ride home was also wet - used the windshield wipers constantly from Asheville to within 5 miles of our house. But, the e31 was a bit more carefully waterproofed than the e9's were. However, I've seen some postings on the UK e31 forum where the bottoms of the doors are rusting out. Wonder if they have been parked outside a lot in that very moist climate. Anyway, as a bit of insurance, I left all the doors/hood/trunk/windows open in the hobby garage for 48 hours after I returned home. I'm now going to turn the AC on in that building to remove any residual dampness (with doors etc. still open).
Hope your's gets completely dry very soon. So sorry you had to bypass the 'Tail of the Dragon' on your way home, but in my opinion, it is MUCH more enjoyable to attack it from the TN side.
Cheers, and thank you very much for your courtesies.
Gary
After learning all about your car's history, and the great care you've taken in maintaining that aspect, seeing the picture of the water running out of the right rocker panel was nauseating. I can only imagine what it was like for YOU!!
My ride home was also wet - used the windshield wipers constantly from Asheville to within 5 miles of our house. But, the e31 was a bit more carefully waterproofed than the e9's were. However, I've seen some postings on the UK e31 forum where the bottoms of the doors are rusting out. Wonder if they have been parked outside a lot in that very moist climate. Anyway, as a bit of insurance, I left all the doors/hood/trunk/windows open in the hobby garage for 48 hours after I returned home. I'm now going to turn the AC on in that building to remove any residual dampness (with doors etc. still open).
Hope your's gets completely dry very soon. So sorry you had to bypass the 'Tail of the Dragon' on your way home, but in my opinion, it is MUCH more enjoyable to attack it from the TN side.
Cheers, and thank you very much for your courtesies.
Gary
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Deleted - a duplication
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Thanks, it will be better than before and protected for many years to come when I'm done with this project. Fortunately all the original carpet pieces will be cleaned and reinstalled over etensive rust/moisture protection as they only were damp for a few hours. Maybe next year for TOTD.
I did not mean to say that the incoming source of H20 was definitely the front wheel well - floor area. Since this was the source of my unwanted humidity, I thought I would suggest a starting place for your search. (Livingston and Stanley began their respective searches in Africa.) In my experience, regardless of condition, few E9s are absolutely water-tight up top near the side windows, and even fewer E9 owners would readily submit their cars for clinical hose down trials with fire department pumpers. Commander Murray would certainly understand.
You raise an interesting point about "natural" or intended drain holes. I once spent a lonely weekend with a wet vac on both an 02 (type 114/E10) and and E3 that were inadvertently left outside with windows partially open during a torrential cloud burst. (IIRC, they were outside due to the driveway having been freshly repaved.) Both cars retained about an inch of water in various areas - without any obvious dripping. I toyed with the idea of drilling some drain holes, but resisted in favor of the wet vac., dessicants and assorted unapproved dehumidification methodology. Everything turned out fine with the added benefit that the interiors received a much needed cleaning and I discovered some loose change. It turns out that both vehicles had been treated with Ziebart Rust treatment/undercoating, and that probably plugged any obvious drain holes. (The '02 has a box-like enclosure for brake and clutch master assemblies. As best I can recall, it did not have any drainage holes, which is probably why it is often a source of iron oxide.)
I am unaware of any E9 body pan drain holes, although I seem to recall at least one or two examples of dangling rubber tubes, that may have been a means of venting batteries stored under the rear seats. Sadly, I would image that many E9s and other cars of their ilk and age have developed their own moisture disposal systems and it is a positive testament that yours is solid. That said, I would seriously consider tapping a couple of holes in non-strategic low areas, with the notion that they could easily be plugged with something like 3M 5200, commonly used to seal boat transom seams or some other seam sealant. Rubber plugs typically generally don't cut it. I think this is better than the alternative of waiting for evaporation or shipping the car to the Sahara, in search of Lawrence. I am also reminded of the example set by Dang, where he parks in car on a downward sloping driveway as a deterrent to unwanted water collection.
It might be that similarly jacking your car fore or aft will reveal some hidden weep holes.Wish I had a better response, other than to say what you already know, get rid of that water ASAP or consider adopting pet sea sponges.
Best of luck.
Some good responses albeit off topic now LOL. I will get back to Scott about the concept of forming the group before the event and arriving together and see what he says. Once more, good to meet many of you and I look forward to next year!
yeah sorry about the hijack!
A dehumidifier(s) in the garage space is great for peace of mind and to help counteract these cars' rustproofing shortcomings.