Seat belts

I have a couple of questions regarding seat belts for a BMW 3.0 CS 1972:

1. What different kinds of seat belts have been used in the production process?

a. What brand names have been used in the production process?

b. In my car the seat belts are fixed. What about retractable belts? Was that used in the production process?

c. My seat belts are 3 points. What about 2 points, was that used in the production process?

d. Where can I find/buy seat belts?

e. Should I restore the car with fixed belts or retractable belts?

f. Should I use 2 points or 3 points?

Sincerely,

Per Österberg

I think this is how it was done, at least in the US: The early coupes had fixed three point belts with the shoulder belt mounted near the rear seat backrest. Then the shoulder belt was moved to the roof near the driver, still fixed, with a little shelf to hold the belt when not in use. I think the big bumper coupes finally got retractable belts with the shoulder belt mount moved to the rear seat area again. The fixed belts were Autoflug here in the US. Someone will correct me if I am mistaken. If you go to www.bmw2002faq.com there is a member who restores the original belts, his name is Bluedevil, or search on seatbelt.

Most have at least gone with a retractable lap belt up front, that is what I have, but it does make the wife nervous. Some have figured out how to make a retractable three point belt so I hope they share their knowledge.

There is no question in my mind, given the limited safety features of this car, that a 3-point belt is a the best option. (unless you don't drive the car). I found a retractable 3-point system at The Andover Companies (http://www.andoauto.com) model 8406B. They were reasonably priced. The retractable spool portion has a cover and mounts behind the seat at the floor. I fabricated a 20 cm fixed strap from the ceiling mount bolt to run the shoulder belt through, otherwise the shoulder part rides too high.

good luck,

I think the stock 1974 3 point seat belts are available. I might have the year incorrect but there was 1 coupe year set still being manufactured. I purchased mine from Carl Nelson at La Jolla. The retractable portion needs to be fitted under the rear arm rest. From 1971 and on there is a bracket that you can bolt up to. The stock belts are not cheap!!! But on the other hand, this is not an area you want to go cheap on. I would highly recommend 3 point belts for any car that you plan on driving.

1. What different kinds of seat belts have been used in the production process?
As far as I know all CS Coupes used 3-point belts. As already mentioned, early cars used fixed, retractables in use by late 1972.
(according to original parts book updates)

a. What brand names have been used in the production process?
Klippan is most common for fixed belts, and there were two styles: very early are traditional lift-lock clasps, by perhaps '68 or '69 the "lobster claw" type with chromed hooking post between the seats. Hepwe was also used from 1962 (3200CS and 700 models). All retractable belts were Autoflug or for the UK, Kangol.

b. In my car the seat belts are fixed. What about retractable belts? Was that used in the production process?
Autoflug or Kangol, fitment to factory bolt location as described by others. Two versions of retaining slack or when not in use for the shoulder belts were used: a triangular plastic hanger next to the back seat grab handle over the rear part of the front window, or a similar clip attaching the belt to the wooden trim panel at the door opening.

c. My seat belts are 3 points. What about 2 points, was that used in the production process?
Not that I am aware of. Even my '63 700 Cabrio and '62 700CS have factory 3-point belts.

d. Where can I find/buy seat belts?
If you want authenticity, search out correct belts for your car, and send them to a reputable jobber for restoration. Never rely on used belts to be safe!

e. Should I restore the car with fixed belts or retractable belts?
Entirely a personal choice. I prefer fixed... when they're snug, you know it.

f. Should I use 2 points or 3 points?
Use 3-point belts. In the event of a crash 2-point belts can contribute to nasty upper body/facial injuries or worse.

Good luck with your restoration.

I have a set I am about to sell or put into storage - 3 point inertial reel belts in black with all the fittings - they could be used as is or perhaps the basis of a full restoration - front seats are retractable with the inertia reel hidden in the rear side panels and fixed via 2 substantial brackets (I have the brackets) the rear seats are lap type belts as standard. if anyone is interested please PM me with your offers

Not sure about what was used in Production process...However, I bought my coupe in '82 from Deutschland and the PO (1st owner) put in shoulder harness/racing belts. Very secure, though tough on the girls with bigger top ends if you know what I mean; it does accentuate them! The car and the harness are magnets!
Jon

Belts

Interesting discussion, many variations probably exist.

1. "As already mentioned, early cars used fixed, retractables in use by late 1972.
(according to original parts book updates)" Response: fixed front belts were still the norm for `73 US models, retractables available on US `74s

a. "Klippan is most common for fixed belts, and there were two styles: very early are traditional lift-lock clasps, by perhaps '68 or '69 the "lobster claw" type with chromed hooking post between the seats" Response: I haven't seen a US coupe with the lift lock style although these were used on 2002s of the period, usually Klippan, early coupes may have gotten the Lobster Claw style (anyone have this?). Most US coupes then received the traditional style Autoflugs, from what I have seen, with the erect buckle/receiver on the tunnel.

b. "Two versions of retaining slack or when not in use for the shoulder belts were used: a triangular plastic hanger next to the back seat grab handle over the rear part of the front window, or a similar clip attaching the belt to the wooden trim panel at the door opening." Response: Are you referring to the factory retractable belts? I have never looked at one closely so I obviously don't know. The fixed roof mount belts only had a shelf on which to fold the belt up and out of the way. My `69 2002 does have the belt anchor under the rear side window and the cover has a small clip to hang the belts but I haven't seen this in a coupe, does anyone have this setup?

Custom seat belts

Can anyone learn what Paul Cain used in his 3.8CSi?

I can ask Paul or send him an e-mail. It took a bit of engineering which is what he loves to do!

Paul Cain Seatbelts

From Paul's website, 38csi.com, it shows a good pic of where he mounted the retractor:

Q: Where do you mount the top point for the front seatbelt? Did you have to weld a mounting point into the roof structure? Also did you use the stock front belts? and/or their stock location beside the rear seats?

A: The upper anchor was already welded into the roof structure, this started in 1973 US (federalized) models. That part was the only "bolt in" component . Nope, no welding was required but on an earlier model you would need to do this. The belts are right out of an E32. No, the anchor point for the retractor mechanism was buried in the lower rear window sill. Major brackets made from .125" plate were custom formed and bolted to the sill, as for the rear belts, stock 320i retractors and receptacles were used. Both items required custom brackets and cutting to the rear quarter panels.
Thanks!
paul cain

A: The upper anchor was already welded into the roof structure, this started in 1973 US (federalized) models. That part was the only "bolt in" component . Nope, no welding was required but on an earlier model you would need to do this. The belts are right out of an E32. No, the anchor point for the retractor mechanism was buried in the lower rear window sill. Major brackets made from .125" plate were custom formed and bolted to the sill, as for the rear belts, stock 320i retractors and receptacles were used. Both items required custom brackets and cutting to the rear quarter panels.

What are the chances of getting more detailed or close up pictures?

belts

For what its worth....I bought a set of reconditioned front belts for my 2002 from "bluedevils" on the bmw2002faq.com. Al Erkanli is a good guy, who has a strange niche hobby, and does a very good quality job of it. I owe him some photos of my (74 and 72) e9 belts, and will probably have him do mine. He sews new belt material, and rebuilds mechanisms; biggest problem is usually finding good "ends" without pitting, rust, etc. I'm never going to Pebble Beach, so I may let him go with upgraded "ends"...I tend to like the "safety" part of safety belts. Dave V. in NC

Stan, Paul has one picture on his web site of the retractor. I will try to get some more.

Previous seat belts thread

There was a thread on this a while ago:

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4502