1972 BMW 3.0 CSi - $35000 in central austin

NMNA

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/4460321445.html

1972 BMW 3.0 CS - Diamond White Metallic with tan leather, Automatic, AC, 123,000 original miles. Purchased in California, completely refurbished at South Texas Auto Restorations (STAR) in Golliad, Texas in the early 1980's. Was originally Polaris Silver with blue. The paint and interior are both in great shape.

Part of a collection that is being sold to the next enthusiast. Garaged, no smoking, well maintained at Terry Sayther BMW Automotive in Austin, Texas. New Tires, new battery, fuel system repaired, new brake lines, AC recharged. . ..much more. Contact me for an honest assessment of this beautiful classic BMW that is only going up in value.

contact name: Greg Talley
contact by phone: ☎ 5126573486

I spoke to Greg about this car shortly after discussing the $69k e9 he is selling for another "collector" in Austin. At the time, he sent along a couple of pictures of the process of pulling this from the "little old lady's" garage after 5 years of sitting. I inquired about pricing and history, and got a note saying it was a CA car, originally silver w/123k original miles.

I asked if he would let me know what he wanted for it; heard nothing and now this ad pops up.

Given that I'm a little irked by his communication style, I might add that I called Terry Slather on the other e9 he is fronting. They told me the engine swap was done ten years ago, which means Greg's estimate of 2000 miles on the engine does not comport with his statement that the car was a daily driver for many years. The Terry Slather guy also said they did not do the paint and used to see the car regularly up until a year ago, which again is not entirely consistent with Greg's picture of a very well maintained car used as a daily driver. I wrote this off as Greg not knowing the car in detail and was hoping to clear this up with the owner. Unfortunately, as with the white e9, I did not hear back from Greg on speaking to the owner of the blue one.

The second US/NA automatic VIN made, just added to the Registry.

Wow 35K for that?

via email

I contacted Greg and asked him if I could come by and look at the cars, I told him that I was an enthusiast and really wanted to check the condition in case anyone was interested on the forum. He was quick to reply and gave me his contact number and said no problem checking them out and that he was selling for another party. Not sure who set the prices but I hope to see them before the end of the weekend and I can report back if anyone is interested. My guess is not at that price, but from the pictures it is impossible to tell what their approx. value might be....I'll take pictures!

Central austin 3.0CS's

Just viewed both cars and drove the Mcar, pretty cool, both have various "issues" Greg is a very nice guy and knows the price is out of line but he's selling for a friend (actually 2 friends in the neighborhood). I gave him what I considered an honest opinion, knowing I'm not really as good as most folks on the forum, but he understood my pricing points. He will probably bring them both up to my shop where I have a lift and the owners will probably come with him so I can further inspect and maybe they will set a more realistic tag on them both. I'll post some pictures later as I'm coffee deprived now and my son and I just had a great ride from Central Austin back up north in the coupe.

And BTW, I never would have gotten my car to look and run like it does with out the forum- so thanks again everyone!

tmason said:

Wow 35K for that?

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A BIG +1 on that....not even close....should be in much better condition than that, plus a deduction for non-original paint, etc. Missing parts, lousy door panels, etc. etc. etc.

the scoop

OK, after having done a preliminary check and test drive on the M-powered coupe I have some thoughts that I hope are at least semi-accurate, and pictures are attached. First the Blue, not really sure what color this blue is but it does not matter because the paint is not a quality job; the engine compartment was not prepped at all before the second re-spray and the workmanship is sub-par. My feeling is that if you do a good job underneath then you cover it with a nice coat-conversely ... you get the idea. The paint is "very rough" and very few of the lines match. There is definitely rust in all the usual spots though the extent is difficult to tell. We must always assume the worst. There is no doubt that anyone buying this car would want to do a complete strip down and I can assure you at least the right fender would have to be removed to see what's up with the strut towers and surrounding sheet metal. I'm always surprised when I see a fairly good job done with the mechanicals and then no attention paid to the body- or worse, who knows what may have been done under the paint. Additionally, there are signs of rust in both front and rear, L & R rockers. I liked the work done on the transplant though and not being sure exactly which M motor is in this thing I can say that it looks to be done correctly and it runs well, has a real snakes-den for headers and the A/C was plumbed correctly. Please I'm not an expert on the M motors- or anything for that matter- I already said that. The interior is by no means original but the dash and console are in very good shape and the floors seem solid, headliner looks original and is in good shape and it was fun to drive. I would say that I would expect more power from a well tuned M engine and I think this one could use some going through. If my coupe has 180 hp. I would say that this one felt like about 205, so a very nice sound, but not a Mustang GT. Road manners were very nice but you could feel some weakness in the body when cornering so my take would be a total tear down and rebuild with some body strengthening if the motor were to put out more than 250 hp and at least some bracing up front regardless. I'm going out on a limb, but let's say the body was just a poor paint job and the rust was limited then I would put the value of the body at a high mark of 6-7K, the interior could be cleaned up and re-assembled so I would put the value of that around 3K and the engine/drive-line and suspension, again, if there were to be no major issues, high side 10K. So add all that up and you're at around 20. There is no doubt that this owner probably spent close to 100K over the last ten years or so, but unfortunately about 85K of that was in labor for which he did not receive his money's worth. I have offered to have the owner bring the car to my shop where I can do a better job going through it. One thing though, we must give credit to anyone wanting to preserve and drive these cars so just because the owner was not a professional "car guy" my hat is off to him for his desire! There may be a chance that with the correct direction he will do a proper tear-down and end up with a unique and fun and safe car or he will understand my points and place a more realistic price tag on it.

more pics

Just a couple more pictures- I'll get to the white one later- but if anyone is interested or wants to make an offer I can pass it along to the owner and send a better opinion once I can look at the car on the lift.

Peter, a most generous and fair appraisal. One of the best I have seen on this forum. It is too bad the owner did not know all this before he started throwing money at his coupe.
I have never seen what look like "Pop Rivets" holding the chrome trim on. Interesting car.
Steve

Nice work Peter.

With the poor fit of the front belt line trim, i would be wary that some front fender, or nose, work may have been done. Or, maybe the chrome trim pieces are new BMW parts that don't fit correctly (like the rear quarter panel new BMW pieces).

The motor is the M88 euro, single timing chain motor. Properly tuned and in good condition one should be able to feel the "seat of the pants" difference. Real concern with the motor is the maintenance history including whether the double valve spring upgrade was done and the condition of the timing chain, tensioners and guides. With coupes that have the M30 drivetrain the major concern is rust and the quality of any body repair/restoration work since the work on the drivetrain is not costly relatively speaking. With this coupe, one could be into body repair/restoration and, also, major expenditures on the drivetrain.

Steve

Thanks folks, again, working on the "white" one later today-

This could be a money pit. Not only would you have to sort out outrageously expensive body/trim items, but the drive-train would take a lot more money to sort out than stock due to its exotic parts.

IMHO, this seems like a creation of circumstance and was a good deal only when it was created.

And the high asking price does not help either.

MF

Peter - thanks for taking the time to check on these cars and post the results. I posted in the other thread on the blue car that I spoke to a guy at Terry Slather, the shop that did the engine, and he said the work was done ten years ago. This seems to contradict the statement in the ad that there are only 2000 miles on the engine.

Also, the Terry Slather guy mentioned that they recommend a paint guy in Austin; the broker handling the car said the car was painted in Houston.

Ohmess said:

Peter - thanks for taking the time to check on these cars and post the results. I posted in the other thread on the blue car that I spoke to a guy at Terry Slather, the shop that did the engine, and he said the work was done ten years ago. This seems to contradict the statement in the ad that there are only 2000 miles on the engine.

Also, the Terry Slather guy mentioned that they recommend a paint guy in Austin; the broker handling the car said the car was painted in Houston.

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That is a HUGE red flag, when cars do not add up to the statements, then there is usually something expensive lurking below.....but at the right price any of these cars make some sense...just as long as you don't think they are going to keep going up in value like crazy.....this car market is ready for a large correction, like mostly everything else....for what it's worth.....

OK, some semi-final notes before we move on to the white car. In the case of Greg, the owner and Terry's guys I don't think there is any effort to make things "shady". It's simply a little difference of opinion, a little hearsay and allot of very knowledgeable forum members chiming in- and it's GREAT!! Wow, there is a love for these cars. When someone does not "live through" the e9 experience and they end up with these things the only thing they know is that they are special, they don't know values really or how much of a pain it is to put a new Bilstein into it's holder only to find out that the PO swapped strut tubes from a Bavaria and put Tii solid rotors on the front and now have to buy new calipers to fit the stock discs. etc. So, what I found out from speaking to Greg was that he was more than happy to have me point out every little thing wrong with the car, he wanted to hear all the nasties and listened very intently and understood what I was talking about- not sure I did . Everyone wants to see both of these cars in the hands of someone who will care for them but they don't necessarily understand the correlation between money spent and product worth, as we all know that is usually a much more sobering experience than the occasional happy surprise. Regardless, I think there is some value to both cars and some risk as well so with that I'll likely close the chapter on M blue from my side but happy to help if anyone is interested.

Nice car revue Peter and insightful comments from all! One can learn a lot about about e9s and (BMW engines) just from this thread... Paul

Just as a point of reference, I just bought all of the timing equipment for my M88 for $983 - S38 equipment to do the double row timing chain upgrade. Still need to do the valve springs, rings, bearings, gaskets and seals, etc.

The Euro M88 is IMO the best of all possible worlds. It's a decent/high compression motor designed for a non-cat car. Since we don't need a cat here in TX (and since it wasn't OEM equipment most states would be OK) it is the non smog-hampered engine).

Thanks for the report Peter - I'd love to go visit this car and hear more about who his "paint guy" in Austin is.

Cheers
James

The white one

OK, here is another car, being sold by Greg- both of the owners are his neighbors but are different people. The white one as we know originally started out silver (Polaris?) and was much less "customized" than the Blue one. Apparently purchased in CA as a used car when it was 2 years old and owned by the same woman since then and now being sold. (please-I could have missed some of the history so if that’s not correct there was no intent to misrepresent) Her price expectations are equally as unfortunately unrealistic as her other neighbor, but I put this up to her love of the car and not an attempt to conceal its condition. This car has also seen a re-spray in a non-BMW color, closer to pearl white, something you might find on a newer caddy- not all bad, but not really what it should be in my opinion (purist or not). The good thing is that for better or worse most all the original parts are there though the stereo is a bit "oversized" especially in the rear making me wonder if there is additional flex in the body due to a pretty important structural piece having such large holes cut in. That is an easy fix though. With the exception of the door cards, and the seats the interior is in "good" condition. Not very good, not poor, just good, and I would think salvageable. Unfortunately there is a similar lack of attention to detail in the paint and I feel the only reason it is not a bodily outcast like Blue is that it only had 1 re-spray (to the best of my knowledge). The little details like the wheel arches or fender lips were not properly shaped and so you can see some squared off sections that would have only taken a few more minutes to do correctly. The chrome is dirty but might clean up very well with the proper technique and again- the pieces are there and pretty original. The strut towers are in better condition than Blue but still need inspection and I felt a few crusties under the padding. Again, hard to tell extent without sfDon's ice-pic explor-o-meter.

The engine bay is fairly clean for its age though you can see the mat-black short-cut, but again, the parts are there-have I said that enough?. It's an A/C car, which I like- you don't have to use it if you don't want to, though I'm told it needs a re-charge, which we know could be a simple thing or a 3K fix. Oh, and unfortunately it's an automatic, though it has the fancier shift lever- not sure if the trans is the same as the T-bar shift ones or better or worse- I never really wish to know but someone might. Again body did not scream rust and fairly sure it's a CA/TX car, but that still is not a guarantee- obviously.

I tried my best to take good shots, but it was difficult because I'm trained to photograph Victoria’s Secret models and not cars. The 35K tag is very much out-of -line with its actual value and I am told that the owner would rather "store" it than sell it cheap, though my comment was that if you store a 12,000.00 car (an e9 especially) in the hope that it will appreciate what you will end up with in 5 years is a 6,000. car because even if you put it in Death Valley it will still rust and the pieces to fix that stuff are not getting cheaper-making repair work more expensive and thus the car less valuable.

My take on this car in short is that all risk considered it would be a great candidate for a full restoration and conversion to 5 speed, the car is relatively unmolested (not sure about the wheels). The odometer I think is in the 135K range and I did not drive this one. It has a stock exhaust that will more than likely need replacing.

I feel that if this is presented to the owner and a price tag of 10-12K were put on the car it would probably be worth the risk. Again, the owner probably suffers from a love of fond memories of a car that is very unique and assessed the value based on her admiration for the car and not the market. My note to Greg would be that an easy e-bay, bring a trailer, craigslist, e9coupe.com comparison would bring a more realistic price. As with Blue, if anyone is interested I would be happy to help if I can so let me know-Pictures attached