E9 Alpina B2 restoration in Spain

federico

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Hello all, Even though I have been including information in the forum, I have been including it in the wrong area...sorry. I will start this thread informing you that some weeks ago I acquired a 3.0csi Alpina B2 from a friend who was in financial "dire straits", and had to let go of a car he had kept in dry storage for 21 years.
This car had been imported to Ppain by Jose Angel Sasianbarrena in 1977, CET (Spanish tourism car championship) champion and also a competitor in the german championship with ALfa GTV and BMW 635's in the early 80s. As a spanish rally champ he was looking for a car to imitate Stuck's success in German competition. UNfortunately, this car was to heavy and not very competitive. He bought the for from a private owner and sent it to ALPINA for a b2 conversion, weight elimination (has no AC) and installation of a self blocking differential. I believe it has 250 HP. It's current miles are aprox 60.000 and I have a complete history of invoices from 30.000k to 90000k. All from official BMW dealers.
The third owner of this car-my friend- discovered that he had bee sold a rusty example and decided to restore it. Being a stingy guy (hope he doesn't read this thread) he sent it to an indecent shop (I can say that because we have had to dismantle the car and found the incredibly insulting, for such a magnificent machine- work that had been done). MAking the story short, I have a car in good mechanical state, with all it's bits and pieces, but quite rusty, so the first part of the job was to tackle it's rustiness, but how to do it well and on a budget...
I've come up with something that may work. As you will probably know, in Spain we have a 25% of jobless people. Among them, I found a Peruvian specialist that has been restoring cars all his life (he's 64). I also have a friend who has a big workshop in Portugal and is a very good mechanic and incredible painter. He's painted my 635 csi, an xk8, a golf Cabrio (1st series) and painted/transformed several bikes I own. On the plus side I have recommended him to many friends who have become his clients doing works such as Citroen DS Diplomatique (a Chapron model), Jaguar Xj's and many others. Just a tip...he will not paint your car if he can't dismantle it (glazing, doors panels etc..). So I rented a little house for 200$ a month for the peruvian and took him to portugal...he likes it so much he's thinking staying there. LASt week they started to dismantle it and commenced the job.
I will be posting photos and if you have ideas of how I cam ameliorate the car changing parts for more modern and efficient substitutes (like an elctronic ignition, better alternator, better motor wipers or other motor parts)
please feel free to give a hand. I want to use it as a daily driver and I believe there will be many bolt on parts I can include in the project. One detail that could be interesting is a new gear box to change it's gertrag so it can ride with lower revs...thanks for your patience and it's an honour to be in such a knowledgable community.
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Photo of Belarmino Jantarada and Lolo (the peruvian artisan) who are the wizards I have written about. I expect to have the job done completely for less than 20k (parts included)...worthwhile visiting Spain, isn't it?
 

federico

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how it was found and what we are using

The car had been 21 years in a dry garage, You will se its state by the pictures i'm including. we are using zinc plated 1.25 steel plates, a bit thick to work with but will last forever..and make the car more resistant to torsion. Small metal bit are being bought, when more expensive to make, wallothnesch.com. The rest will be hand made. All small spaces that will be closed will previously be thoroughly waxed. the, I hope in 10 days everything will be sandblasted so no rust is left behind.

 

Sven

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Federico, This looks like quite a challenge. Please keep adding photos of the progress when you can. It is always fun to watch someone else bring back a car from the edge of oblivion.

I have one comment. Given that a significant portion of some of the structural members have rusted so badly, or are completely gone, have you made sure the car is straight and not twisted/bent before repairing these sections? I don't see any temporary interior bracing. The car is just on jack stands (assuming the floor is flat and level?). I think the blue book manuals have some critical dimensions for points on the body.

good luck,
 

federico

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Federico, This looks like quite a challenge. Please keep adding photos of the progress when you can. It is always fun to watch someone else bring back a car from the edge of oblivion.

I have one comment. Given that a significant portion of some of the structural members have rusted so badly, or are completely gone, have you made sure the car is straight and not twisted/bent before repairing these sections? I don't see any temporary interior bracing. The car is just on jack stands (assuming the floor is flat and level?). I think the blue book manuals have some critical dimensions for points on the body.

good luck,

I will get on to it immediately, but I have few worries. the doors (one of the important tells) had perfect gaps. the underside, thanks to abundant wax oil isn't to bad. In any case I will check but structural, what you say really important structural members, are still in place. We will check the dimensions in any case, using a laser meter.
Thanks for the counsel!!!! better safe than sorry!
Federico
 

Arde

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Fascinating project, look forward to the photographic progress.

I need to repaint my E24, it would be great to host Lolo for that as soon as he is done with the Fukujima B2, pardon me I mean Alpina B2, the car front end triggered some associations.

Peru has incredible craftsmen, I brought a carved mate and a silver knife. Machu Picchu rocks were too heavy to bring home. Damn airlines and their weight restrictions.
 

Sportster

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I will get on to it immediately, but I have few worries. the doors (one of the important tells) had perfect gaps. the underside, thanks to abundant wax oil isn't to bad. In any case I will check but structural, what you say really important structural members, are still in place. We will check the dimensions in any case, using a laser meter.
Thanks for the counsel!!!! better safe than sorry!
Federico

Hi Federico,
I hope that you do not take offence from what I am about to say, it may cause some backlash from others on the forum but also agreement with the comments I'm about to make!

You have in your possession a rare car with some history. E9's are especially hard to restore. They have a complicated structure that needs careful alignment and bracing before any replacement should be attempted, with attention given to the shape and gauge of metal used, together with its strength, so as not to transfer stresses to parts that have not been designed to take them.

The skill of the restorer comes into play here.

He has to have an understanding of how the car he is working on is constructed, the welding methods involved/suitability and ability to replicate them as close as possible to maintain the integrity of the structure.

From the post that you have made so far, I don't feel that any of these basics have been attended to.

The panels that have been made to repair the the insides of the A post, the ones with the slits cut into them, show that your metal worker doesn't have an understanding of how to shape metal by either shrinking or stretching. The beading is missing and the returns at the top are the wrong way round.

There are faults with the way other repairs have been made which lead me to doubt his ability to restore, which is totally different.

Where the bottoms of the A posts have been cut away, because there is no bracing, you will undoubtedly have caused movement in the body and when it comes to replacing the outer panels, you will have problems achieving acceptable alignment/gaps.

With the front of the car being so severally corroded, and from what I can see, the spring pans needing replacing together with the inner wings needing extensive repairs, if this is not done on a jig, you will find the handing of the car such that it may make the car
un-driveable .

You may think that you have found a way to restore the car on the cheap, but in the long run, the most cost effective way to restore it, is to do it properly, which is something that I don't see as being done.

At the end of the day, it's your car and your budget. I hope it turns out the way you expect.

As I said at the start, please don't take offence from my comments.

Regards, Peter.
 

deQuincey

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Hi Federico,
I hope that you do not take offence from what I am about to say, it may cause some backlash from others on the forum but also agreement with the comments I'm about to make!

Regards, Peter.

Hi peter,
I couldn´t use better words, i totally suscribe them
really good advice in your post, hope our new friend is able to complete an excellent restoration
regards

federico, you have a PM
 

federico

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You are making quite correct remarks, and I appreciate them! The car, before and after being dismantled was measured with a laser and on no distortion has been appreciated. Though concerns of tension increases transmitted to other areas, areas are being reinforced with material that has only .12-15mm increased thickness. A jig would have been necessary if any distortion was appreciated, when it was weighed down fiscally (to see is anything tended to move). Strings where attached to see if they lost tension (while taking the motor out). Yes, it would be preferable to undergo the process as you describe it, but it would be excessive cost wise and good is sometimes opposed to perfect! If there was an objective when the car was built, it seems to me making it light weight was not a primary concern (always considered heavy to compete in rallies by professionals). I hope that doing things gradually (not sand blasting it before undergoing any work, as you have to move the car) with no movements that can generate distortions, no major mishaps will occur). Results will be sent gradually, and when on a budget, you can't expect miracles! I don't even consider doing something similar to Yannick, I recognize the impossibility to embark myself into such an incredible process (and my admiration), though I'm quite confident, after having had previous experiences with other cars, that the final result will be a very decent car (not a concourse one, of course!) capable of being used every day, and I don't intend to race it, just have fun, and approach the project with utmost humility AND JOY! Thanks for giving me such a well intended advice, as I can see you love E9's (something we have in common). The fact that my pockets aren't deep doesn't deter my desire to have a E9 B2 Alpina, or make it less intense, but I know that there aren't many alternatives at my disposal! Same thing will happen with the interior. I will have to work with a local upholsterer and use non original materials, but as long as the stitches are well placed and look good, things will be OK. As I said, I love the car and bringing it back from the dead is the objective, and I can assure you it won't look like a german frankenstein.
federico
 
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Sportster

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Hi Federico,

Thank you for accepting my comments in the spirit that they were made, just don't ask how I know!!!!!

I am in a similar position as you in that I have 2 other E9's that need restoring, a CSL and a CSA, both of which are in Spain (Archidona) and I am here in the UK. Hopefully I will be back there soon for good and will be in a position to finish them.

Maybe some time in the future we can meet up with deQuincey and any other local members and talk E9's over a litre or 2 of vino dulce, my favourite tipple!!!

I will be following your progress with interest.

"¡Nos vemos!"
 

jvrenaudon

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e9 Alpina restoration

Frederico,

I defer to others but in my opinion the door apertures ought to be securely braced with triangular frames between hinge-points and lockpoint (fixed while the car is still on its wheels) and then some additional diagonal bracing should be fixed at right angles to the car's axis. "Twist" is the enemy. The only ally you have is the robust transmission tunnel.

Either way, I wish you well in your endeavours. Best wishes.
 

Sportster

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Metal shaping link

Here is a link to an excellent forum all about metal-shaping

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/index.php

To see the photos you have to first join the group and introduce yourself.

I guarantee that you will spend hours and hours looking at all the post and some of the incredible work that has been produced by both amateur and professional alike.

Also a link to youtube that shows some content from a DVD made by a skilled English panel beater which shows how to make panels using hand tools. The DVD is 2 1/2 hours long and leads you from basic shaping to more complicated pieces using just hand tools. I can highly recommend it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8

The DVD is available here http://www.metalshapingzone.com/

You will learn a lot and surprise yourself at what you will be able to make.

Regards,

Peter.
 

federico

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Here is a link to an excellent forum all about metal-shaping

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/index.php

To see the photos you have to first join the group and introduce yourself.

I guarantee that you will spend hours and hours looking at all the post and some of the incredible work that has been produced by both amateur and professional alike.

Also a link to youtube that shows some content from a DVD made by a skilled English panel beater which shows how to make panels using hand tools. The DVD is 2 1/2 hours long and leads you from basic shaping to more complicated pieces using just hand tools. I can highly recommend it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8

The DVD is available here http://www.metalshapingzone.com/

You will learn a lot and surprise yourself at what you will be able to make.

Regards,

Peter.

Thanks Peter, looks really interesting. I will look into it, It sure helps!
federico
 

federico

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Frederico,

I defer to others but in my opinion the door apertures ought to be securely braced with triangular frames between hinge-points and lockpoint (fixed while the car is still on its wheels) and then some additional diagonal bracing should be fixed at right angles to the car's axis. "Twist" is the enemy. The only ally you have is the robust transmission tunnel.

Either way, I wish you well in your endeavours. Best wishes.

Thanks Im getting quorum on this subject. Hope no screwups have already been made!
federico
 

federico

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Hi Federico,

Thank you for accepting my comments in the spirit that they were made, just don't ask how I know!!!!!

I am in a similar position as you in that I have 2 other E9's that need restoring, a CSL and a CSA, both of which are in Spain (Archidona) and I am here in the UK. Hopefully I will be back there soon for good and will be in a position to finish them.

Maybe some time in the future we can meet up with deQuincey and any other local members and talk E9's over a litre or 2 of vino dulce, my favourite tipple!!!

I will be following your progress with interest.

"¡Nos vemos!"
I will surely looking forward meeting you all. If this one turns out properly I will be happy to pass along all the contacts. Second time is always easier. I would worry about a hanover with vino dulce! By the way, the sierra de gracia is beautiful this time of the year.
federico
 

federico

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I'll let Lolo know what you say. As soon as I get more photos I'll post them.
thanks for you comments!
federico
 

federico

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Hi peter,
I couldn´t use better words, i totally suscribe them
really good advice in your post, hope our new friend is able to complete an excellent restoration
regards

3RD WEEK PROGRESS.
Here is a new batch of photos. I have a question for you all. The front and rear discs are both ventilated discs. Front calipers are double pistons and rear single. Was this a special Alpina Option?
Aa you will see things are advancing. It's hard to work with 1.2mm galvanized steel but it will be solid, really solid! Once completed, with the car is structurally solid, we will be able to move it, hanging it upside down. Then it will be shot blasted, specially the underside. All will be left to bare metal so all rust issues are corrected. Then a through covering with anti rust paint sprays, bituminous underside covering (or whatever it's called), waxing in all closed spaces etc... We will be receiving more original parts to solder in from Wallothnesch this week. Obviously, only small parts (a wing is more than a weeks worth of hand labour, so better to redo the wing than to buy one (specially of we are making the parts stronger than the original ones!). Just received the Blue books thanks to Dequincey! It will really help.
I will have a semi complete chasis in two weeks and will post HD pictures for you to see. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel....it looked really complicated at the beginning. Ill be able to say: "We did it (with a small budget) because we didn't know it was impossible to do! Always the optimistic...
Thanks for your support!
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deQuincey

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that is good progress federico !
as to the brake calipers, the whole setup is standard stock for the 3.0 coupe
regards
BTW, front strut shows backing plate missing, that is a round plate that prevents dirt comming into the brake disk and caliper, you must find one !
check it here,

 

federico

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that is good progress federico !
as to the brake calipers, the whole setup is standard stock for the 3.0 coupe
regards
BTW, front strut shows backing plate missing, that is a round plate that prevents dirt comming into the brake disk and caliper, you must find one !
check it here,

Hello deQuincey,
Are the rear brakes vented in the standard 3.0csi model?
thanks ,
Fred
 
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