I see there are a lot of old threads on converting to pertronix ignitor solid-state ignition, however not much info on the newest Ignitor 3 product. This product has multiple sparks, which I think will help reduce my emissions. Does anybody have any experience installing this on a later model e3? What was required? I have 76 3.0si. Thanks!
pertronix
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Tierfreund
Well-Known Member
With a stock M30 in an E3 there is a few things in decending order that you can do get the ignition to work really well:
1. replace points with electronics. The regular pertronics or a lumention will do. Magnetic or optical is a matter of taste. I use the pertronics all the tame and have nothing but praise for it
2. Make sure the distributor is mechanically in tip top condition. No play in shaft, centrifugal advance and vac advance working as designed
3. Replace all ground straps on the car. Put in a few more. Put one from the cylinder head close to the distributor to chassis ground as well. Clean the grounding points on the chassis before you put the new straps on. protect with grease. Service regularly. Seriously you would not believe the difference that will make. Fm radio reception will improve greatly as well.
4. Make really sure you ignition timing is set exactly right (as per manufacturer)
5. of course make sure rotor and cap are in tip top shape
6. Make sure your coil is healty. No need to upgrade to anything, the stock type coil but in good quality (Bosch or similar) will do.
7. Make sure HT leads are tip top. Go to something better if you like (I like the magnecor leads, very good quality that will last forever)
8. Go to Iridium plugs. NGK Iridium, not platinum, not bosch, only NKG Iridium. Benefit: They don´t foul easily and will last forever. Alternatively: use regular chaep Bosch plugs but change them all the time.
That´s it. And if you can do only one thing: do #1, the points are the biggest issue with the stock system, especially now where quality points are very hard to come by)
Everything else will yield no noticeable benefit at all. High voltage coils, programmeable ignition, multi spark firing etc... that´s all very nice but you will not notice any improvements over stock+pertronics in the way the engine runs. Or rather you will if you´ve spent the money but that is psychology.
You´d be surprised at how effectively and optimally the stock ignition can ignite the charge in an M30 if only it is in perfect working order.
If you want to make sure it is: go visit DQ with his marvelous Bosch motor tester and Osziloscope.
If your engine is not stock anymore (weber sidedrafts, different compression, more cubic inches, hot cam etc.) all bets are of. Then you´ll probably need programmeable ignition and a lot of time because you´ve effectively become a motor manufacturer and have to go through the full development process for at least igniton and injection, probably thermo- and fluid dynamics as well. Can be fun but no easy task. If you care to learn about what that implies, I can recommend a few books...
To answer your question: The ignitor 3 is for the benefit of the manufcaturer, not yours. Go with the simple ignitor.
If you want to improve your emssions: do 1-8 !
and then start taking a look at your injection (the L-Jet is pretty reliable but check the cold start injector for leaking , the MAF for wear and the fuel pressure for correctness). IF that doesn´t help: your engine is worn and will need a rebuild.
1. replace points with electronics. The regular pertronics or a lumention will do. Magnetic or optical is a matter of taste. I use the pertronics all the tame and have nothing but praise for it
2. Make sure the distributor is mechanically in tip top condition. No play in shaft, centrifugal advance and vac advance working as designed
3. Replace all ground straps on the car. Put in a few more. Put one from the cylinder head close to the distributor to chassis ground as well. Clean the grounding points on the chassis before you put the new straps on. protect with grease. Service regularly. Seriously you would not believe the difference that will make. Fm radio reception will improve greatly as well.
4. Make really sure you ignition timing is set exactly right (as per manufacturer)
5. of course make sure rotor and cap are in tip top shape
6. Make sure your coil is healty. No need to upgrade to anything, the stock type coil but in good quality (Bosch or similar) will do.
7. Make sure HT leads are tip top. Go to something better if you like (I like the magnecor leads, very good quality that will last forever)
8. Go to Iridium plugs. NGK Iridium, not platinum, not bosch, only NKG Iridium. Benefit: They don´t foul easily and will last forever. Alternatively: use regular chaep Bosch plugs but change them all the time.
That´s it. And if you can do only one thing: do #1, the points are the biggest issue with the stock system, especially now where quality points are very hard to come by)
Everything else will yield no noticeable benefit at all. High voltage coils, programmeable ignition, multi spark firing etc... that´s all very nice but you will not notice any improvements over stock+pertronics in the way the engine runs. Or rather you will if you´ve spent the money but that is psychology.
You´d be surprised at how effectively and optimally the stock ignition can ignite the charge in an M30 if only it is in perfect working order.
If you want to make sure it is: go visit DQ with his marvelous Bosch motor tester and Osziloscope.
If your engine is not stock anymore (weber sidedrafts, different compression, more cubic inches, hot cam etc.) all bets are of. Then you´ll probably need programmeable ignition and a lot of time because you´ve effectively become a motor manufacturer and have to go through the full development process for at least igniton and injection, probably thermo- and fluid dynamics as well. Can be fun but no easy task. If you care to learn about what that implies, I can recommend a few books...
To answer your question: The ignitor 3 is for the benefit of the manufcaturer, not yours. Go with the simple ignitor.
If you want to improve your emssions: do 1-8 !
and then start taking a look at your injection (the L-Jet is pretty reliable but check the cold start injector for leaking , the MAF for wear and the fuel pressure for correctness). IF that doesn´t help: your engine is worn and will need a rebuild.
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All those IX iridium plugs appear to be resistor plugs. Since I'm running the stock plug endings, brown bakelite, that have the built-in resistor, running resistor plugs on top of that would be a problem, wouldn't it?
Thanks for the great write up Tier!! I was considering the multispark system mainly b/c I have high CO, which is failing CA emissions. I was thinking MSD might help that.
Like Luis says, unless you can get German made Bosch's W7DC or W8DC (not WR7DC which are resistors) which I used to spend hours tracking on eBay, I'd go with regular NGK BP6ES, not resistor, available everywhere and have worked great for me.
Tierfreund
Well-Known Member
High CO indicates either bad (unreliable) ignition or rich running. Fix the igntion, but properly (that´ll help a lot more than throwing some more spark after the first one). If the igntion system is not ignting every time sparking three times every other time won´t do much good.
If the igntion is in tip top shape: check your injectors and the cold start injector for leaking. Check the MAF. Check the temp sensors for the injection (water and air but mostly water). Errors in any of these can lead to rich running.
If you just want to pass emissions: Try playing with the fuel for the SMOG test. Some fuels will help (more alcohol content for example, 10% Isopropanol will bring down CO nicely...)
Or just weld an aftermarket catalytic converter into th exhaust somewhere (right before the first silencer for example). A bit tricky to do because you´ll be pretty close to the gearbox but doeable. There were retrofit kits in germany for a while (no longer availabe) and I had one on my car. Will do wonders for emissions even if you don´t even run lambda correction...
But most likely: your engine is just worn (found in another of your posts that it has 150.000mls).
Consider a swap with a 1989-1991 535 engine. That´ll really get the bav shifting...
Tierfreund
Well-Known Member
Even if they are (although I beleive the NGK Iridium is not but I may be wrong): it doesn´t hurt. More resistance, even double won´t make much difference to the spark (this is a high voltage circuit, any resistance will pale in comparison to the gap of the plug). But for ease of mind you can switch to non resistance plugs and wires as well (just won´t look original anymore).
Also, as I stated: the Iridium plugs are very much optional. They are just very pratical if you drive a lot and don´t want to be changeing the plugs a lot. Normal plugs and shortert changing/checking intervalls will do just as well.
I will honker down for the crap I will get after this statement. Run a can of Seafoam thru your system. Then add a bottle of Techron to your tank. These will in no way substitute for a perfectly tuned car and if you are failing by a little, can get you over the hump but if failing by a lot, you have a lot of work ahead of you.